How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3249 Location: One more question...
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: The Peak Oil Movement Is Unprepared For Its Two Biggest
Addressing challenges is great. Try to focus on solutions instead of rants against that which you can't change. _________________ "Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
Joined: Jun 04, 2008 Posts: 9 Location: The City of Angels
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: Re: The Peak Oil Movement Is Unprepared For Its Two Biggest
I think we ought to be paying attention to Mike on this one.
To me, his point was that when a huge media campaign to to inform and finally look at peak begins, and he thinks it's coming soon, we peak oil folks have to be prepared to be a very vocal and assertive part of the dialogue. We have to be prepared and confident to push forth the Heinbergs and Whipples and Campbells etc... to the front lines of the debate.
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2615 Location: The Entropisphere
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: Re: The Peak Oil Movement Is Unprepared For Its Two Biggest
MD wrote:
Addressing challenges is great. Try to focus on solutions instead of rants against that which you can't change.
Fair enough. I will remain negative about what can be done on a macro level but that does not mean there are not opportunities in the micro-sphere.
What can be done on a local basis or within my circle of friends, family and associates?
1. Help individuals and families relocalize their personal economies through the sharing of resources and knowledge. This would include but not be limited to selling/trading/gifting of OP seed and starter livestock.
2. Encourage others to act on investments they may be slow to undertake. By investments i mean investments in their personal environment such as the capability to heat with wood or expanded garden space, or fruit trees.
3. Give the gift of my labor as they work on their own projects.
4. Insert more options here: _____________________. _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5347 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: Re: The Peak Oil Movement Is Unprepared For Its Two Biggest
syrac818 wrote:
What a bunch of whiny bullsh*t
Uggghhh... seriously. Basically, peak oil will go mainstream and when it does, other people are going to take my place as the expert and that's really going to hurt my feelings.
Or something like that.
When peak oil goes mainstream, you'll see a huge public push to actually conserve and address the issue. It'll be framed as the great challegnge of our time, there will probably be some sort of feel good campaign centered around, the economy will go into recession and people will bitch, there will be hardship, a lot of innovations will come out but nothing will ever truly replace oil. And slowly, we adapt. Unlike this place, things won't immediately jump to starving hordes and people eating their cat.
What's especially rad about peakoil.com is we all like to pat ourselves on the back for "knowing it all along". We saw this coming in 2004 (or at least I did) and many well before that. The smart ones have made good money from this. However, what this forum never farking admits is that $100/oil was predicted as the beginning of massive social upheaval. By $120/oil the DOW was at like 5000, and unemployment was soaring to 25%. And by $140 the die off had started as social upheaval had official set in.
But that sh*t didn't happen, because the reality is most of the world is a little more chemically balanced than the majority here. I've tried being an optimist - it was ridiculous. I've tried being a doomer - it was equally ridiculous. Now I'm just being real. We'll grind through it like we always do - with a lower quality of life
And that is my rant.
I think you over-generalizing about the opinions here. Yes Kunstler said the market was going to 5000. He's not an economist, but he might have right if the Fed didn't bail out the whole banking system March 17, but it did.
But that's just one opinion. As for myself I have never predicted the likelihood of a major market crash just yet. Neither have most others here who understand energy and economics well.
I've said that because most of our infrastructure was built on cheap oil, we have the benefit of that - and for the most part - the higher price of oil isn't immeadiately reflected in the cost of consumer goods. I would guess on average prices are now based upon $80 oil in the US. The average imported price of oil last year was only $70. So we still haven't even felt the effects of $100, and when we do, we will be in a recession at least.
There are many fine posters here, and in their field of expertise, they give excellent advice. _________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2
Page 2 of 2
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
