| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hironegro
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 270
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
  |
|
If there was rampant speculation wouldn't we be seeing a massive build up of inventory?
This price levells will helps us to use energy efficiently and move us towards sustainable alternatives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Micki
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 1741
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| Quote: | | In response to record oil and gasoline prices, the U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday approved 402 to 19 legislation directing the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to use its authority, including the agency's emergency powers, to "curb immediately" the role of excessive speculation in energy futures markets. |
Besides being the expected finger pointing and attempt to further move any responsibility to address energy issues away from the congress/senate, what does this really mean in practice?
It simply says FTC to use authority it already has to curb "excessive" speculation. What the heck does it mean? Obviosly the market seems to think it doesn't mean anything.
Worst case scenario as I see is that trading moves overseas to places where same restrictions don't apply.
_________________
Lets take a ride, and run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
You cant hide, run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
- Pet Shop Boys |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
smallpoxgirl
Moderator
Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 5212
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| Denny wrote: | | So, by limiting the marketplace, perhaps Congress is just moving potential oil speculation profits out of American hands into more foreign hands, hands whose trading gains bring no taxes into the treasury. |
Yeah. Like perhaps Iran?
_________________
"I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
threadbear
Expert
Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 7251
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| JohnDenver wrote: | Excellent news. I especially like that 402 to 19 vote tally. Very promising. A great first shot across the deck, and it should get even more interesting as they start firing the big guns.
Pay no heed to those who defend speculators. Without exception, these people are invested up to the gills in oil futures and ETFs, and don't give a rat's ass about anything but their own bottom line.
My favorite solution: Highly invasive IRS reporting requirements for anyone owning oil, or oil related futures, ETFs etc. Windfall profits from flipping these investments should be taxed at bonecrushing rates.
Whether this lowers prices or not is irrelevant. The important thing is to saw off the snickering hyenas who think they can profit with impunity off the pain of ordinary people.  |
Hear hear! But why isn't the price of oil responding? It should be dropping. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DantesPeak
Expert
Joined: Oct 23, 2004
Posts: 5509
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| threadbear wrote: | | JohnDenver wrote: | Excellent news. I especially like that 402 to 19 vote tally. Very promising. A great first shot across the deck, and it should get even more interesting as they start firing the big guns.
Pay no heed to those who defend speculators. Without exception, these people are invested up to the gills in oil futures and ETFs, and don't give a rat's ass about anything but their own bottom line.
My favorite solution: Highly invasive IRS reporting requirements for anyone owning oil, or oil related futures, ETFs etc. Windfall profits from flipping these investments should be taxed at bonecrushing rates.
Whether this lowers prices or not is irrelevant. The important thing is to saw off the snickering hyenas who think they can profit with impunity off the pain of ordinary people. |
Hear hear! But why isn't the price of oil responding? It should be dropping. |
No it should be rising.
If people suddenly found out they wouldn't be able to buy some very essential to their lives soon, wouldn't they want to buy as much as possible before they no longer could?
_________________
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cube
Fusion
![]()
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 3375
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| JohnDenver wrote: | ...
My favorite solution: Highly invasive IRS reporting requirements for anyone owning oil, or oil related futures, ETFs etc. Windfall profits from flipping these investments should be taxed at bonecrushing rates.
... |
That proposal sounds like it's 2 steps away from a dictatorship IMHO
What's the difference between "bonecrushing" tax rates and outright banning an activity?
Wouldn't everybody just shift their money elsewhere?
capital controls == Zimbabwe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
smallpoxgirl
Moderator
Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 5212
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| threadbear wrote: | | Hear hear! But why isn't the price of oil responding? It should be dropping. |
How do you think prices are going to drop when inventories are already dropping at the current price? It needs to rise.
_________________
"I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattduke
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Oct 28, 2005
Posts: 1171
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| The politicians are dedicated to eliminating any means by which you may protect yourself from their monetary inflation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnDenver
Light Sweet Crude
![]()
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 1844
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| mattduke wrote: | | The politicians are dedicated to eliminating any means by which you may protect yourself from their monetary inflation. |
Precisely. Think "gold confiscation". And reread that vote count. Let it sink in: 402 to 19 402 to 19 402 to 19 402 to 19...
_________________
Peak Oil Debunked |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homesteader
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 1162
Location: Central NC
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
Yes, and they have the public crying out for a solution to save them.
History repeats.
_________________
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pup55
Expert
Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 3597
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| Quote: | | Speculators may actually be short the market |
Let me weigh in on the side of this one.
The argument can be made that the 'speculators", short sellers like Phil, have actually had a damping effect on the market, and have kept it from skyrocketing on a number of occasions by selling the market when it nears a technical resistance level.
Anyway, who is going to determine what 'excessive" speculation is?
If you allow none, you do not have a liquid market. You have a market run by the oligopolies that are in this industry, and that works against transparency, fair markets, and everything us capitalists hold near and dear.
Thirdly, who's to say the 'speculators" won't just trade in Singapore, rather than the NYMEX?
This whole thing looks like more election year pandering by the increasingy irrelevant US House of Representatives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jdumars
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 437
Location: Nashville, TN
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
smallpoxgirl
Moderator
Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 5212
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| jdumars wrote: | | This whole business just stinks. |
What? You're surprised a politician would lie to you? 
Excellent article BTW.
_________________
"I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnDenver
Light Sweet Crude
![]()
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 1844
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| pup55 wrote: | | If you allow none, you do not have a liquid market. You have a market run by the oligopolies that are in this industry, and that works against transparency, fair markets, and everything us capitalists hold near and dear. |
"Capitalism" is going to go right out the window. With the kind of price escalation we are currently seeing, there will be wartime-style measures in the near future. You are really naive if you think the right to make a quick buck in the futures market trumps the need to keep the real economy functioning.
| Quote: | | Thirdly, who's to say the 'speculators" won't just trade in Singapore, rather than the NYMEX? |
As long as you're in the U.S., they've still got you by the balls. They'll regulate the terminal you're using, and int'l money transfers. You can try to avoid the int'l banking system and the tax authorities, but it's complicated. You'll also be a criminal.
Of course, you could pick up and move. Get your wife a burqa and go to Dubai. Hope you like sand. 
_________________
Peak Oil Debunked |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
threadbear
Expert
Joined: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 7251
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Re: US House Votes to Curb Energy Market Speculators |
|
|
| smallpoxgirl wrote: | | threadbear wrote: | | Hear hear! But why isn't the price of oil responding? It should be dropping. |
How do you think prices are going to drop when inventories are already dropping at the current price? It needs to rise. |
Inventories were up as reported June 25th. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
