Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
There is an official public statement of US president about upcoming energy catastrophy. It is 31 years old. Hubbert's theory is 53 years old. Dozens of countries went from being oil exporters to oil importers . So just shut your stinky breadcutter, I say.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
killJOY wrote:
Third, I now believe that the more peak oil predictions come true, the more peak oil explanations will be resisted. What I mean to say is, the die has been cast: even when the peakers are right, they will be denied. And the more we're right, the less we'll be believed.
Yes. The public hasn't yet been through the denial and anger stages.
Do not make yourself visible during the denial stage, or you risk becoming a target during the anger stage.
"The people" have been hopelessly brainwashed and most have no idea how the world works. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
Quote:
edit: Like chess pawns, they can only move one square at a time. Even a two-square "en passant" requires rare circumstance.
For the record, an "en passant" capture is only a one square move.
The two square move of a pawn from its starting position does not, to my knowledge, have a name. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
When I am at a gas station chatting with a stranger I usually enjoy the expression on their face when I tell them that our current fuel prices are cheap.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
mefisto -
I used to do that.
Stopped doing it.
One day I was mouthing off about how ridiculously cheap gas was at 4 dollars a gallon, we should all be glad, and this station won't be here in 10 years, and I got a look from one patron that I recognized as -
"I want to punch your f----ing teeth down your throat."
So I put that to bed - no more mouthing off.
Life is tough enough without creating enemies out of strangers. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 576 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
I read a couple of postings regarding talking with co-workers. Be careful, fellow PO members. You don't want to lose your job right now.
I'm in the same situation. It should be easy to talk to my peers, right? No! I work with the "elite". Mostly white, mostly male, all highly-educated. How hard is it to talk facts and senses to them? Well, virtually impossible.
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1162 Location: Central NC
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
Its been mentioned before that the worse it gets the less people want to hear what we have to say. I'd have to agree with that to a large extent. When the zit of denial bursts I don't want to get splattered with the pus. _________________ "The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:18 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
Cashmere,
Shows what I know about chess..... Hopefully, I can remember more about how to cope with those who don't know anything about PO! _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
Interfector wrote:
I mean, big change needs to happen to the way we live right now. We've probably already shot our chance to avert a catastrophe but that doesn't mean we can't start to make some of the hard choices and sacrifices that need to be made before the inevitable crunch.
What would be your suggestions to get the message out there?
In 2007 I wrote to 15 of the largest newspapers in the US and a half dozen news magazines about PO and not one publication was interested. I also wrote to 60 minutes, many TV broadcasters and Al Gore...no response.
I've talked about PO to other forums like kayakers, mountain bikers and backpackers most of just blow me away and make jokes about it. Other forums like the RV crowd say I am an alarmist. A political forum said it was propaganda and banned me. For the sake of our inner peace we must accept our job is to just plant the seeds...but we cannot force them to sprout.
It seems everyone wishes to hide their heads in the sand when it comes to this subject of peak oil. We can't depend on the President to come clean with the public. All his energies are spent just trying to keep the oil flowing. He can't admit that the oil will stop in the not so distant future, no matter what we do. It is a problem beyond his as well as all of our control.
As they say in 12 Step programs - admitting you have a problem is step 1. And our country cannot admit it, after all, admitting this problem would raise hell with our retirement funds. And until we can admit it, we cannot begin on our long road to a 'semblance' of recovery.
And in the big picture, we can't fix the problem, we can only postpone the inevitable. But buying a little more time would make things much more livable in the not so distant future than the current path we are headed in.
The world is in a death spiral and politicians as well as industry are pretending this problem does not exist. We can only blame ourselves, for it is just how we have built our world over the years....too many people, living outside of natures intended balance and not an infinite supply of energy to fuel all our demands.
It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But 7 billion people can't burn the trees!
Consumption is ingrained in us and we know no other way. And even if we wished to amend our ways, how could all our retirement funds take the hit? America is built on borrowed money, spending and consumerism.
Even if we did find out how to burn water for energy, petrochemicals make up a large portion of crude's importance to mankind. Roughly 9% of every barrel of crude goes to petrochemical use.
If we stopped burning crude this instant, we would still suck the wells dry, albeit not as quickly, just from petrochemical use. We will run out of natural gas, just as we deplete our crude supplies in the near future. After that uranium and coal will run out as well.
We are in deep, deep doodoo.
We must accept that we have built our world on unsustainable means - a means built artificially on fossil fuel.
And when we live out of balance with natures intended means there is a price to pay to come back in balance with nature. And the price usually extracts pain from us in the adjustment process.
It has been estimated that for the earth to sustainably support its population without fossil fuels a 90% dieoff must occur. I don't know if that is the right figure, but I do know humans could not live as they do unless it was funded by artificial means via fossil fuels.
So if this dieoff happens, of course there will be great amounts of pain in the world. But it is natures intended balancing act. It also reminds us that nature does not bow to humans - it is humans that always bow to nature.
Animals live within their intended balance with nature and it is only man that destroys his environment and has to pay the price through pain and suffering from working against nature.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
VMarcHart wrote:
I read a couple of postings regarding talking with co-workers. Be careful, fellow PO members. You don't want to lose your job right now.
I'm in the same situation. It should be easy to talk to my peers, right? No! I work with the "elite". Mostly white, mostly male, all highly-educated. How hard is it to talk facts and senses to them? Well, virtually impossible.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
mefistofeles wrote:
When I am at a gas station chatting with a stranger I usually enjoy the expression on their face when I tell them that our current fuel prices are cheap.
Yes, I saw something interesting on TV. They interviewed a fellow at a gas station about high gas prices. It was somewhat refreshing to hear something different than the usual fare of blaming it on the oil companies or speculators.
He asked the interviewer how is he going to pay for $7 a gal gas and how is he going to get to work? He was starting to see the effects of a post carbon world without even knowing about peak oil.
I think the smell of the SHTF is starting to enter the nostrils of the general public.
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
Cashmere wrote:
mefisto -
I used to do that.
Stopped doing it.
One day I was mouthing off about how ridiculously cheap gas was at 4 dollars a gallon, we should all be glad, and this station won't be here in 10 years, and I got a look from one patron that I recognized as -
"I want to punch your f----ing teeth down your throat."
So I put that to bed - no more mouthing off.
Life is tough enough without creating enemies out of strangers.
Well, we can be smart asses about it or not. We can offer the information is less caustic ways.
I just tell people there is no limit to gas prices as out crude supply is drying up. I tell them Google peak oil if they do not believe it. (and keep a bottle of pepper spray in your pocket for back up).
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: Re: How do we get the message out there about imminent Peak
btu2012 wrote:
You don't. You let people around you find out on their own.
The denial at grassroots and political level will continue much longer that you expect.
Nothing they can do anyway. They can't pull crude out their ass. To 'try' and do anything substantive would cause a financial and population backlash of unimaginable proportions.
And what we could do, even with drastic measures, would not cure the problem, but only slow things down. WE CAN'T CHANGE....IT IS ALL WE KNOW!
Sustainability...lets be honest, we only pay it lip service.
We talk of living in a sustainable world, yet our actions betray our true feelings. All we have to do is to look at the stock market to see what happens when growth declines even a little.
Even if a company yields stable earning, but does not grow its earnings it is looked down upon. Stability and balance is part of a sustainable footprint, yet we shun such balance.
A good book that discusses concepts of sustainability is: 'Peak Everything' by Richard Heinberg
America is built on debt and spending.
70% of our 'economic heath,' better termed as 'economic sickness' is based on consumer spending. When the consumer can't compulsively spend any longer our economy collapses...we are not a healthy country.
With one breath we talk about cutting global warming and how we have to cut our dependence of fossil fuel.
Then with the next breath we demand no cut backs in our standard of living, we must spend and consume above all else...build more, build faster, build bigger.
We have the tiger by the tail, we CAN'T let go and all hell is going to break loose soon.
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