Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
btu2012 wrote:
Of course well-supplied ivory towers would be prime targets for looting by desperate people. It's happened before during the fall of the Roman Empire. Guards didn't help much, often they figure out that they'd be better killing their master and sharing the loot.
Dream on.
Btu
You mistake my perspective. I'm thinking like a guard.
So, how many casualties do the desperate people endure before they go elsewhere? My expectation is that correct shot placement can modify their attitude.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Graceland
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
Instead of "survival of the fittest", how about "survival of the lucky"?
It seems to me that luck has more to do with it than anything.
There is, of course, the idea that chance favors the prepared, and that sort of thing, but when I look at how we got here in the first place, it seems like a road marked with a lot of good luck.
Our apparent "survival" as a result of our superior intelligence is probably going to look pretty silly in about 10,000 years.
The dinosaurs were quite well adapted to their environment--they were very "fit", but then everything changed and they all died. They were unlucky, not unfit. _________________
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
charliebrownout wrote:
Quote:
I'm not trying to push a Gordon Gecko anti-morality. I'm just saying if everyone took a closer look at their lives they'd realize they aren't as guiltless as they seem. Ever won a job over someone else? Maybe that guy was in financial straights, and jumped off a bridge because he couldn't support his family.
In my case, I'm in an influential position of interviewing potential hires. So I've been instrumental in hiring two people, and NOT hiring a bunch of others. Was it my moral responsibility to find a way to employ these people even if I thought they weren't qualified? I was an "elite" to them.
Despite the welfare state, at some basic level everyone has to sink or swim and compete with eachother. It doesn't have to be with sticks and stones. Your heart can bleed all you want but you just can't avoid it.
Can you absolutely avoid it? No. Should you avoid it whenever possible? Yes.
There is a big difference between intentionally causing harm and accidentally causing harm--even if the end result appears similar at times.
Even in cooperative models, Mos, the most qualified person to do a job, should be doing it. Some competition is necessary, and is a GOOD thing.
The American corporatocracy, has become increasingly dependent on the obsequiousness of proles (team players) working in a "star" system, that rewards "outstanding individual performance".
The ones who end up dominating are a bunch of loose cannons, who end up destroying the long term viability of their companies, for short term gains. The subprime banking fiasco is a perfect example of this. The same mentality has gripped the entire corporate structure. Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Bait and Switch" as a primer.
You end up endorsing it, by seeing it in the wrong light. What is going on in the boardrooms of the Fortune 500, is much more a kind of retarded inbred aristocratic rule, represented by interlocking boards of directors, with a "visionary" greedy CEO presiding over dullards. The best of the best often aren't the first ones fired, because human resources excludes them from the get go, in favour of compliant team players.
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
mos6507 wrote:
charliebrownout wrote:
Regarding Gore, well, he's just a hypocrite. "Do as I say, not as I do" is a hypocritical statement. It really doesn't matter how you slice it.
Ed Begley is a hypocrite too if you want to be really anal about it.
More or less, yep.
It doesn't mean they've got a bad message. I'm NOT trying to say global warming is a crock. I'm just saying the detractors who point to Gore's consumption of resources have a valid point.
Afterall, if the guys who shout about conservation won't give up their own lifestyle--how can they expect others to do it?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
threadbear wrote:
Even in cooperative models, Mos, the most qualified person to do a job, should be doing it. Some competition is necessary, and is a GOOD thing.
The American corporatocracy, has become increasingly dependent on the obsequiousness of proles (team players) working in a "star" system, that rewards "outstanding individual performance".
The ones who end up dominating are a bunch of loose cannons, who end up destroying the long term viability of their companies, for short term gains. The subprime banking fiasco is a perfect example of this. The same mentality has gripped the entire corporate structure. Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Bait and Switch" as a primer.
You end up endorsing it, by seeing it in the wrong light. What is going on in the boardrooms of the Fortune 500, is much more a kind of retarded inbred aristocratic rule, represented by interlocking boards of directors, with a "visionary" greedy CEO presiding over dullards. The best of the best often aren't the first ones fired, because human resources excludes them from the get go, in favour of compliant team players.
I think Bush is the poster-boy for what you've mentioned. Being rich doesn't make you smarter, it just makes it easier to survive without being smart.
Also, I'm in full agreement that companies want obedient workers more than they want to develop some sort of brain trust.
BTW, could someone explain to me WHY a CEO deserves million-dollar severance after driving a company into a wall? I don't get it.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1091 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
charliebrownout wrote:
I think Bush is the poster-boy for what you've mentioned. Being rich doesn't make you smarter, it just makes it easier to survive without being smart.
Haha. The US president is one of the most powerful positions in the world. Bush isn't president because he is rich and he sure wouldn't have gotten there if he was dumb.
Even if you dont like bush which I assume you dont. You can have respect for someone acheiving the position he is in regardless of whether you agree with all of his decisions.
Until you are president or CEO of a fortune 500 company dont dog what they do. You have no idea what they are doing.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
joeltrout wrote:
Haha. The US president is one of the most powerful positions in the world. Bush isn't president because he is rich and he sure wouldn't have gotten there if he was dumb.
Even if you dont like bush which I assume you dont. You can have respect for someone acheiving the position he is in regardless of whether you agree with all of his decisions.
Until you are president or CEO of a fortune 500 company dont dog what they do. You have no idea what they are doing.
joeltrout
I guess I should know my place and just bow down in awe of rich and powerful people...
Then again, that really isn't my style.
I'll concede that I may not know what they are doing, but sometimes I wonder if they do, either.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1091 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
charliebrownout wrote:
but sometimes I wonder if they do, either.
As soon as I submitted my post I knew I would get this response.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12024 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
I don't respect George W Bush. I'm not a very respectful person.
W is an example of "survival of the lucky." He was fortunate to be born into a wealthy and influential family, and to be able to move from one position to the next in spite of not being very good at each job. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1091 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
Ludi wrote:
He was fortunate to be born into a wealthy and influential family, and to be able to move from one position to the next in spite of not being very good at each job.
There are hundreds of families that meet that criteria.
Remember he did get re-elected.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
charliebrownout wrote:
I'm not sure why you're so eager to go to bat for the ruling class? Secretly aspire to power? Vicarious kicks?
First of all...everyone aspires to power. Oh, people love to deny it. They claim there merely wish to be left alone, to pursue their muse in harmonious humility. It's all utter nonsense. We all lust after raw power. The ability to force our will upon others. Don't think so? Look up the Stanford prison experiment. Here's a LINK
Second - the ruling class pays better than the poor. Unless, of course, one uses the poor, fleeces them, picks their pockets en masse.
I suspect that those who criticize Bush would sell their soul to have his money and contacts. And be glad of the opportunity.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1091 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
charliebrownout wrote:
I'm not sure why you're so eager to go to bat for the ruling class? Secretly aspire to power? Vicarious kicks?
Most likely they are not secretly posting here on peakoil.com so someone has to give them a voice.
I work in the oil industry, my immediate family have worked in the oil industry for 30 years, and I have extended family that has worked in the oil industry for over 50 years. All that to say, I have been defending a misunderstood industry since I was in highschool.
It bugs me when people attack industries or job positions in which 99% of people have no real understanding of it. Very few people see the reports President Bush sees everyday. Very few people have ever run a fortune 500 company worth over $300 BILLION.
Most people cant even balance their checkbook, stay married to their spouse, or keep their children from drugs, alcohol, etc... I think most people should consider looking at themselves before they are so eager to point out all the flaws of these leaders that we the people elect.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
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I'll second that.
