Scottish Independence.

dorlomin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 1000

Scotland currently has a devolved parliment of a sort of hodge potch federalism where it runs much of its own affairs. The last Scottish assembly elections put the Nationalists in charge of local government. They have said they want a couple of years of ruling then have a referendum on independence. Sort of to prove that Scotland can govern itself.

Wendy Alexander the labour leader in Scotland has just recently come up with a new tactic, she wants to force the vote ASAP and has announced this will be labours policy.

I used to be pretty anti Scottish independence until I really got to grips with peak oil and realised that scotlands wind and tidal enegy plus its low population density and its notherness and relatively high elivation put it as being pretty prime to ride out PO.

I also think that England needs to break up and the regions grasp there own low energy solutions. (Federalise at least).

Off course there will be a bun fight over the oil. Alot of the UKs oil is in England but the bulk is in Scottish waters. I can see a media frenzy of jelousy and hate from the tabliods over this.

Anyone else got any opinions or veiws?

energycity · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

dorlomin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 1000

I was just out for a wander yesterday and I went through the Isle of Dogs, past the big HSBC and Citibank buildings and the other new developments that have gone up beside Canary Warf. I had not been through there in about 9 years.

Unreal. Utterly unreal the scale of the development. But its all verticle. For all that people talk about public transport I really honestly feel that we are at the limits of the current infrastructure. You cannot squeeze any more people onto the tubes, any more trains into the underground tunnels and the overground rail lines into london are pretty ramajammed.

Decentralising the financial industry is urgently needed if we are to mitigate PO. spread the firms back into the regions, but the UK will loose somewhat as some goes to smaller European cities as well.

The other thing is that as transport costs go up I think manufacturing may make a comeback. A London centric govermnet is so in the back pocket of the financial sector that they are not capable of meeting the needs of industry anymore.

For some reason I cant put my finger on I feel that regional and smaller nations governments will be more willing to address PO than big "punching above our weight" London. They are locked into a dying paradigm of governance. IMHO.

Plantagenet · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

If Scotland had been independent when North Sea Oil was developed, all the oil money would've been taxed and spent in Edinburough rather then London, and Scotland today would've be as rich as Norway.

There is still quite a bit of oil wealth left there for Scotland, if the Scots will secede from the UK immediately.

rockdoc123 · Light Sweet Crude Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1667

energycity · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

Tyler_JC · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

I have a few Scottish friends who have been talking about independence for years.

Personally I hope they get it.

The opinion polls are strongly in favor of Scottish independence.

I wonder what would happen in Northern Ireland and Wales if Scotland became independent.

Would Wales demand independence as well and would Northern Ireland want to join the Republic of Ireland?

Interesting stuff in British geopolitics...
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rockdoc123 · Light Sweet Crude Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1667

Tyler_JC · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

I just hope they manage to achieve this peacefully. Otherwise...

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Nickel · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

energycity · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

Nickel · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

MustaphaMond · Coal Joined: Apr 29, 2008 Posts: 8

I can't see how Scotland, Ireland or Wales can ever truly be independent of England. If things go bad in England they will get dragged down sooner or later by it. So the question about Scottish independence is actually one about how sustainable England is. If England is self sufficient then the Scots, Irish and Welsh will be allowed to be independent and will have a bright post PO future, If not then they aren't.

Now this is not to say that Scotland might not declare independence and that it may not be accepted by a Westminster govt. but more that the English Govt or people in one way or another will rescind that independence, if England ever gets into trouble. The same can really be said of Ireland and Wales.

So is England self sufficient, I don't think so, it all turns on food. We were barely able to feed ourselves in WW2 with a population of Approx. 40 Million and the Scots/Irish helping. Today it is approx. 50 million, most of the improvements in yields are a result of the Green Revolution and with Peak Oil comes the Green Counter Revolution in which most of the gains of the Green revolution will be lost.

England has more arable land than any other part of the UK which explains its dominance, But that also means that there is less room for improvement approx. 70% of Scotland is pasture, if only a small amount of this could be converted to arable they could make a great increase in their food supply. Only 37% of England is pasture, much less improvement via changing use is possible. Secondly England is low lying with is best Farm land in parts close or even below sea level, any improvements England does make due to land use change will be more than offset by sea level rises.

I suppose England could get food from much further afield, but it requires either the ability to sell something unique and necessary, or to send and sustain armies on different continents and have ships to get the booty back to England neither of which England appears to possess.

Tyler_JC · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

Moped · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Scottish Independence.

I don't like youre chances, once the Atlantic Conveyor shuts down Northern europe will freeze.
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