How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
stu wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:
Actually I was talking about the attempted Kosovoization of resource rich areas of countries, i.e. Bolivia.
Spot on Cid.
Kosovo was the first thing that sprung to mind when I read the article.
This pattern of automonous regions seeking independence from the larger country can only exacabate existing problems.
If things go according to plan in the Scottish Parliament then in 2010 they will have a referendum on full independence which could lead to the break up of the UK.
Great point! Why stop at Kosovoization. we really need to get right down to "neighbourhoodiznation". I mean really..I work for a Ford dealership, my neighbour 2 doors down works for KIA. I say we seperate!! Become enemies and try to kill each other. Man..the world is a stupid place. Bottome line is that I really don't give a flying f*** about anyone's stupid "cause" . CHAVEZ CAN ROT IN HELL AS FAR AS i'M CONCERNED
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
Was it Venezuela or Columbia which used to posses the territory we now know as Panama? At the turn of the 20th century, it was an orchestrated movement by the U.S. to divide the country up. Theodore Roosevelt even boasted that while others debated it in Congress and others argued in the courts over the right of the U.S.A. to get involved in this and encourage the revolutionaries, he just got the job done.
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 2496 Location: Ye Olde Englande
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
Denny wrote:
Was it Venezuela or Columbia which used to posses the territory we now know as Panama? At the turn of the 20th century, it was an orchestrated movement by the U.S. to divide the country up. Theodore Roosevelt even boasted that while others debated it in Congress and others argued in the courts over the right of the U.S.A. to get involved in this and encourage the revolutionaries, he just got the job done.
I guess he was not too big on protocol.
If my memory serves me right USA bought it off Colombia to build the Panama Canal.
One wiki search later.
Quote:
In 1903 the United States and Colombia signed the Hay-Herran Treaty to finalize the construction of the Panama Canal but the process was not achieved because the Colombian congress did not pass the measure on August 12, 1903. This triggered the anger of separatist from Panama and other Panamanians who wanted the construction of the canal. The United States then moved to support the separatist movement in Panama.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
So I was half right.
Only if you close one eye.
Do you think the people of Panama spontaneously rose up at that very time to overthow the government and demand the US build a canal, so US ships could get through to the Pacific? _________________ In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
oil4u wrote:
Great point! Why stop at Kosovoization. we really need to get right down to "neighbourhoodiznation". I mean really..I work for a Ford dealership, my neighbour 2 doors down works for KIA. I say we seperate!! Become enemies and try to kill each other. Man..the world is a stupid place.
Bingo.
It's immaturity on the same level as Oscar and Felix splitting their apartment down the middle with a piece of masking tape. Really, rather than a celebration of 'culture', it just reflects on our inability to compromise or tolerate differences.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 661 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
mos6507 wrote:
oil4u wrote:
Great point! Why stop at Kosovoization. we really need to get right down to "neighbourhoodiznation". I mean really..I work for a Ford dealership, my neighbour 2 doors down works for KIA. I say we seperate!! Become enemies and try to kill each other. Man..the world is a stupid place.
Bingo.
It's immaturity on the same level as Oscar and Felix splitting their apartment down the middle with a piece of masking tape. Really, rather than a celebration of 'culture', it just reflects on our inability to compromise or tolerate differences.
So presumably you do think that Israel should disestablish itself as a Jewish state and simply become a true Middle Eastern democracy that is representative of all its people, a land, as you say, able to compromise and tolerant of differences.
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 307 Location: In freefall speed right down to the claws of the devil
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
Cid_Yama wrote:
So I was half right.
Only if you close one eye.
Do you think the people of Panama spontaneously rose up at that very time to overthow the government and demand the US build a canal, so US ships could get through to the Pacific?
The Panamian case is pathetically enlightening about the imperial´s M.O. and how they create countries and legitimise governments.
Yesterday I learned it only took for the north american government 11 minutes to "accept" the creation of the new state of Israel.
The new "revolutionary" government of Cuba, was legitimised in power in less than 24 hour after the coup to Batista.
It was ONLY, after the newly established government of the newly created republic of Panama, agreed it was going to be them those to end up the construction of the waterway, that "recognised" the independence of such new country.
By the way Cid, excellent the term "kosovisation" you earlier used.
Such method will be successfully applied in my country too because of the centralisation process, we have being through systematically, for the last 5-6 years.
Economic resources, that once, by law, were due to the regions, from the central government, have been kidnapped by hugo and the tendency is to eliminate them from the national budget. The worst most outstanding case, with the excuse of its "governor", have been the oil producing state of Zulia.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
Nickel wrote:
So presumably you do think that Israel should disestablish itself as a Jewish state and simply become a true Middle Eastern democracy that is representative of all its people, a land, as you say, able to compromise and tolerant of differences.
In an ideal world, yes. Right now? No. To use the Odd Couple reference again, we're not talking about Felix being upset that Oscar Madison won't clean up the apartment and then putting a piece of tape down the middle of their pad. We're talking about Felix also crossing the tape boundary and blowing one of Oscar's fingers off with an M80 in order to terrorize him into moving out of the apartment.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 661 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
mos6507 wrote:
In an ideal world, yes. Right now? No.
Translation: never. Too inconvenient. Requires compromise. Can't have it all their own way.
mos6507 wrote:
To use the Odd Couple reference again, we're not talking about Felix being upset that Oscar Madison won't clean up the apartment and then putting a piece of tape down the middle of their pad. We're talking about Felix also crossing the tape boundary and blowing one of Oscar's fingers off with an M80 in order to terrorize him into moving out of the apartment.
As I recall, Felix was invited to share Oscar's apartment. He didn't blow up the King David Hotel to get the landlord out so he could kick in Oscar's door and have the place for himself. And in this case, Felix hasn't put tape on the floor. He's built a wall around what little room Oscar has left that reminds the world an awful lot of the wall the Germans built around the Warsaw Ghetto. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
Palast claims the next war of aggression by the U.S is not going to be with Iran but Venezuela. Listen to this. He's hilarious. What a farce the Bush administration is:
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