| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
wisconsin_cur
Moderator
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 3005
|
 Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
  |
|
First their was the Lake Lanier thread of last summer. This year is also looking like it might be a doosey:
Lake Lanier Lower than this time last year
There was also the news recently that Barcelona would start Importing water by ship
But there are also problems elsewhere:
Water Problems in CA
| Quote: | Two parched years - punctuated by the driest spring in at least 150 years - could force districts across California to ration water this summer as policymakers and scientists grow increasingly concerned that the state is on the verge of a long-term drought.
State water officials reported Thursday that the Sierra Nevada snowpack, the source of a huge portion of California's water supply, was only 67 percent of normal, due in part to historically low rainfall in March and April.
With many reservoirs at well-below-average levels from the previous winter and a federal ruling limiting water pumped from the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, the new data added a dimension to a crisis already complicated by crumbling infrastructure, surging population and environmental concerns. |
I am guessing that there are other stories out there but I won't have time to pursue them for a few weeks. So in the spirit of the spreading economic collapse thread and the spreading food crisis thread. I hereby ordain a Spreading Decline in Potable Water Thread.
I will also enjoy OilFinder2  letting us know every time that it rains somewhere in the world since it will demonstrate in his own mind that there really is no problem and that the inhabitants of Barcelona, California, and the American SouthEast have nothing to be concerned about.
_________________
Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
OilFinder2
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 1167
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
Through July the forecast for most of the Southeast is for average precipitation and average temperatures:
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/multi_season/13_seasonal_outlooks/color/page2.gif
This means there will be some improvement in drought conditions there.
Looks like the Southwest will still have problems though. Oh well, can't win 'em all. At least there was more-than-ample snowfall in Colorado this winter, which should keep Colorado River levels reasonably healthy.
_________________
Abundance - what a concept! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OilFinder2
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 1167
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
| OilFinder2 wrote: | | At least there was more-than-ample snowfall in Colorado this winter, which should keep Colorado River levels reasonably healthy. |
As I said:
Abundant layers of snow poised to raise Lake Powell by 50 feet
| Quote: | The Colorado mountains are poised to unleash more runoff than they have in 11 years. Streams in Washington and Oregon are forecast to carry up to 50 percent more water than usual. Lake Powell, stretching more than 100 miles across Utah and Arizona, is expected to rise 50 feet from its current depleted state.
"Overall, the entire West looks pretty good, Colorado and the Pacific Northwest in particular," said Tom Perkins, a senior hydrologist with the National Water and Climate Center in Portland, Ore. "There's no part of the West that's really what you'd call hurting."
This winter was the region's wettest since 2004-05. |
_________________
Abundance - what a concept! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OilFinder2
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 1167
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
Incidentally . . .
Read the rest of your article:
| Quote: | | Not all Bay Area agencies face the same challenges, because they get water from various sources: San Francisco and the Peninsula from Hetch Hetchy, East Bay Municipal Water District from the Mokelumne River watershed and the Santa Clara Valley Water District from a combination of reservoirs and the delta. Some local water managers say their supplies look good. Marin County, for instance, said its reservoirs are at more than 100 percent of capacity. |
I love the way doomers take an instance of some kind of shortage here and there and tell us it means everybody everywhere is doomed and that we're all about to run out of it everywhere. 
_________________
Abundance - what a concept! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wisconsin_cur
Moderator
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 3005
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
| OilFinder2 wrote: |
I love the way doomers take an instance of some kind of shortage here and there and tell us it means everybody everywhere is doomed and that we're all about to run out of it everywhere. |
Regarding water I said no such thing. There is a world market for oil which is why the peaking of worldwide production has the ability to create world wide problem. There is not, in the same way, a worldwide market for water. It is a local issue, this is not to say that it is not an important issue.
But as there are a number of problem areas, the southeast, some parts of California, some parts of Spain etc, I thought I would start a thread to encompass these similar problems.
The comment is what makes your posts, at least in the food thread, so, irrelevant. You care so little for the overall trend that you feel that any deviation from the trend somehow negates the observation that there is a trend. A trend is just that, a trend. It does not suggest that all places have lower grain yields or oil production but that the overall trend is downwards. Since we have worldwide markets for grain and oil that makes the trend more important than individual deviations from that trend... at least until there are enough deviations to change the trend.
So please, tell us about all of the rain happening in other places. Unless it helps fill Lake Lanier, I doubt if it matters much to the water problems in Atlanta or Barcelona. Just because you do not live in these placed does not mean that it is not worthy of comment or concern.
--------
I will defend the title of the thread. To say that it is a spreading problem does not mean that it will effect all places, even in some distant future. Only that there are more places running into the problem. I have no doubt that at some time in the future that trend will stop and even reverse (when there are only 1 billion people on the globe to support for instance). But for now the trend is more problems in more places. Hence the problem is spreading. I will let others discuss the nature of the problem and what may or may not fix the problem.
_________________
Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wisconsin_cur
Moderator
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 3005
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
Concerning how things are right now in the continental US:
I look forward on comment from other parts of the world.
_________________
Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wisconsin_cur
Moderator
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 3005
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
Sorry, I didn't mean to leave Texas out,
_________________
Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wisconsin_cur
Moderator
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 3005
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
Here is a map that I have not seen before. It is a measurement of stream flows for the nation. It is clickable so you can narrow it down by state if you like. Since most (all?) above ground reservoirs are fed my streams and rivers it would seem like another way to look at our water situation here in the us.
_________________
Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Troyboy1208
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Posts: 513
Location: Orlando FL
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
Thank you for this Thread. We have an ongoing water situation here in Central Florida. Orlando is growing quickly and we are expected to exceed the ability of the aquifer to supply our needs of water. This is the proposal: Tap the St. Johns River water. This river runs right through our area and is one of only two major rivers in the world that runs North. There are a multitude of concerns about withdrawing water from the St. Johns. Here is a recent article depicting the various issues from the Orlando Sentinel.
Sucking From The River |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedStateGreen
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1352
Location: Oklahoma City, USA
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
That streamgage map is pretty impressive, cur. I wonder how they map the flow of water in all those streams. Satellite?
_________________
Conservation is conservative
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludi
NeoMaster
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 12631
Location: zombie horde wonderland
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
We're in a drought but the river is at normal flow (so far).
_________________
No original ideas are contained in this post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
green_achers
Heavy Crude
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 382
Location: Mississippi Delta
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
"Drought", to belabor the obvious, is defined in terms of deviation from some sort of "normal." E.g., you wouldn't necessarily consider a dry period in a desert to be a result of a "drought." The problem is, records haven't been kept long enough in a lot of places (the western United States) to really know what "normal" is. Most of the water in the western US was allocated based on a short period of record and during a relatively wet period. Now, whether what we are seeing is a result of climate change or not, it's becoming pretty clear that there is less water available than there are allocated users. Add population growth and the dependence of industrial agriculture on irrigation, and the prognosis is also pretty clear: big trouble.
_________________
WWJD? What would Joel Salatin do? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludi
NeoMaster
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 12631
Location: zombie horde wonderland
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
Many land use practices also damage watersheds and make drought worse. This is the case in much of the Southwest where land has been overgrazed.
_________________
No original ideas are contained in this post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wisconsin_cur
Moderator
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 3005
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
| RedStateGreen wrote: | | That streamgage map is pretty impressive, cur. I wonder how they map the flow of water in all those streams. Satellite? |
I checked the map for the area that I grew up. There was some type of corp of engineers project at both. One of which was the out flow of a dam (which would make it a secondary indicator due to the fact that they control it, albeit in response to hydrolic circumstances). I would guess they are on the ground data collection points of some sort.
_________________
Nature is complete because it does not serve itself.
The sage places himself after and finds himself before,
Ignores his desire and finds himself content.
He is complete because he does not serve himself. -Lao Tze |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OilFinder2
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 1167
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Spreading Decline of Potable Water Thread |
|
|
US drought situation for April 29, 2008
US drought situation for September 25, 2007
source
Sorry to ruin your fun, wisconsin_cur, but the drought situation has actually gotten better in the US over the past 7 months.
_________________
Abundance - what a concept! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
