Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Quote:
Someone that has a healthy and wise mind can help much better than someone that is not. And in the same quote I said to share this method to those that want to have a healthier and wiser mind.
Who determines what is a "healthy mind" ?
Quote:
So Buddhism (not Bhudism) sounds not special to you? Do you know basic Buddhism? Do you know about nirvana, anatta, ahimsa, boddhi nature, metta, pratitya-samutpada and the seven factors of enlightenment? I guess not, since you confuse Buddhism with some "feel good and personal pleasure" non sense.
I do not know what you believe based on a few words, but it certainly sounds like you are a garden variety that believes in the "perfecting of oneself", which is in my opinion, nonsense built on a foundation of dialectic relativity.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12051 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
AlwaysThere wrote:
Who determines what is a "healthy mind" ?
That is an interesting question.
Zensui, how do you determine if your mind is healthy? Is this an entirely subjective process, or is there some kind of objective standard? _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
Someone that returned from Iraq, as an invasor, is just victim of his/her own karma.
So some 18 year old joins the military because there are no other jobs out there. He is naive, so he believes the recruiter.
He gets sent over there. He's scared. He's tired.
The fellow driving the HUMVEE gets too close to an IED. It goes off, ripping the 18 year old's limbs off, blowing out an eye, and numerous burns over, say, 15% of his body. (Just 15% - he got lucky!). It was his first day over there....
He finally gets sorta-kinda patched together. His girl comes to see him. She promises to write. She won't. But she will have nightmares....
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12051 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
I have a lot of trouble with the whole karma thing, personally. For myself, I prefer to believe in physics and accident, or bad decisions in this life, etc, than some kind of curse hanging over from previous lives... _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
AlwaysThere wrote:
Quote:
Someone that has a healthy and wise mind can help much better than someone that is not. And in the same quote I said to share this method to those that want to have a healthier and wiser mind.
Who determines what is a "healthy mind" ?
That's easy, but I won't give links for now. Basically being free of mental pathologies as described in science (psychology,...), religions and philosophies, some of which are:
narcisism, egocentrism or arrogance
hate, lack of empathy towards others
lust, insatiable craving for sex
greed, insatiable craving for material wealth
stealing and envy, desire to take other's material wealth
violence
depression
anxiety
lazyness
sadism
masochism
lack of patience
lack of compassion
lack of honesty, lying
lack of harmony
intolerance
manipulation or coersion of others for one's gain
extremes such as pity or disdain towards others (instead of compassion)
anger
AlwaysThere wrote:
Quote:
So Buddhism (not Bhudism) sounds not special to you? Do you know basic Buddhism? Do you know about nirvana, anatta, ahimsa, boddhi nature, metta, pratitya-samutpada and the seven factors of enlightenment? I guess not, since you confuse Buddhism with some "feel good and personal pleasure" non sense.
I do not know what you believe based on a few words, but it certainly sounds like you are a garden variety that believes in the "perfecting of oneself", which is in my opinion, nonsense built on a foundation of dialectic relativity.
Sorry I mispelled Budhism.
You lack basic knowledge of Buddhism, why are you so arrogant in saying it's nonsense.
Buddhism is about being happier and helping others being happier too, but you seem to lack even basic empathy towards others so that you don't mention the empathy and compassion I've talked about in this thread. It's like if you don't get compassion and are traped in some form of nihilism or arrogance. Prove it otherwise with more respectful and honest criticism. _________________ anagami.net
Last edited by anagami on Tue May 06, 2008 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Ludi wrote:
AlwaysThere wrote:
Who determines what is a "healthy mind" ?
That is an interesting question.
Zensui, how do you determine if your mind is healthy? Is this an entirely subjective process, or is there some kind of objective standard?
Why this subject/object duality? Anyway, there is a consensus in many areas of knowledge of what is being free from pathologies, of which I made a partial list in the post above. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Jack wrote:
zensui wrote:
Someone that returned from Iraq, as an invasor, is just victim of his/her own karma.
So some 18 year old joins the military because there are no other jobs out there. He is naive, so he believes the recruiter.
He gets sent over there. He's scared. He's tired.
The fellow driving the HUMVEE gets too close to an IED. It goes off, ripping the 18 year old's limbs off, blowing out an eye, and numerous burns over, say, 15% of his body. (Just 15% - he got lucky!). It was his first day over there....
He finally gets sorta-kinda patched together. His girl comes to see him. She promises to write. She won't. But she will have nightmares....
And that's Karma, is it?
My, my. What a philosophy.
And I thought I was the sick puppy...
at 18 he should have being aware enough not to participate in a war, which is not a game. That specific example is karma. There's few I can do about someone that is hired to kill and complaints that he got wounded. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Ludi wrote:
I have a lot of trouble with the whole karma thing, personally. For myself, I prefer to believe in physics and accident, or bad decisions in this life, etc, than some kind of curse hanging over from previous lives...
Only a curse? or a curse and a blessing?
You're talking of karma as if it's only negative, I suggest you use sin instead.
There's both positive and negative karma.
And, there are some painful events that are not caused by karma.
An example of karma is someone that kills other because of falling as a slave for passions (anger, lust, ...) and then lives with the phantom of that event for the rest of his/her life, anxious of what he/she had become and of the peace that was lost.
Karma can be described in a psychological way. It's how our own actions make us feel better or worst, if the intentionality, context, thoughts, sentiments, and so on where ethically good or bad.
If you don't believe in rebirth fine, karma still applies in this very life. For those of use that do believe in rebirth, it's useful to have an idea of what karma caused the type of our actual rebirth; to cessate past life's negative karma and cultivate past life's positive karma. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
at 18 he should have being aware enough not to participate in a war, which is not a game. That specific example is karma. There's few I can do about someone that is hired to kill and complaints that he got wounded.
Now, let me get this straight.
He was just sitting there, lots of bad things happen - and that's perfectly balanced per karma?
So, do you ever buy any products that generate profits for U.S. companies? Because that will result in tax revenue...which supports Operation Iraqi Freedom...which means....
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
narcissism, egocentrism or arrogance
hate, lack of empathy towards others
lust, insatiable craving for sex
greed, insatiable craving for material wealth
stealing and envy, desire to take other's material wealth
violence
depression
anxiety
laziness
sadism
masochism
lack of patience
lack of compassion
lack of honesty, lying
lack of harmony
intolerance
manipulation or coercion of others for one's gain
extremes such as pity or disdain towards others (instead of compassion)
anger
Hmm....I think I'll go for a barely ambulatory mind....or maybe a mind in a wheelchair...
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4144 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
Jack wrote:
zensui wrote:
at 18 he should have being aware enough not to participate in a war, which is not a game. That specific example is karma. There's few I can do about someone that is hired to kill and complaints that he got wounded.
Now, let me get this straight.
He was just sitting there, lots of bad things happen - and that's perfectly balanced per karma?
So, do you ever buy any products that generate profits for U.S. companies? Because that will result in tax revenue...which supports Operation Iraqi Freedom...which means....
You, too, are participating in a war.
Yup. Taken to an extreme, think about the bugs killed on our windshields too. Or killed on a result of field spraying (most of) the fruit and vegetables.
The idea is to act to minimize our contribution to the growing carnage. Pay less taxes. Drive less. Kill less. It's impossible to reach zero contribution to the killing... but it's nice to get as close to zero as possible! It's certainly my goal! _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4073 Location: Graceland
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui, don't compare Buddhism to anything else.
Just describe what it is.
This comparison business is only going to cause trouble.
The day that you truly sound indifferent toward what other people choose to believe will be a good day in your journey, I think.
It pains me to see you get bogged down in a whole lot of stuff that doesn't matter.
People who are interested in Buddhism will study it and may have good experiences as you have had. People who are not interested in Buddhism will never see what you see.
I've heard it put this way before: There IS an objective reality, but the closest we can come to perceiving it is still our own subjective perception.
For example, if I am in a building looking out a stained glass window, I know that the outside world I am perceiving is distorted. But I am being honest with myself by not believing I am seeing things through a clear pane.
When one realizes that everyone else is also looking through their own stained glass windows, each of which is slightly different, that is an important step, because it helps you understand that each person has their own subjective experience of reality, and no one experience is more valid than another.
The fact is, the only thing I KNOW is what I see. I can't begin to really understand what you see, and I am content to leave it at that. I don't feel compelled to master or comprehend someone else's view of the world.
However, by respecting others' views of the world, I deepen my own understanding of the world. But my understanding is only deepened when I put judgment aside, because judgment is just another word for arguing. _________________
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3164 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
eastbay wrote:
The idea is to act to minimize our contribution to the growing carnage. Pay less taxes. Drive less. Kill less. It's impossible to reach zero contribution to the killing... but it's nice to get as close to zero as possible! It's certainly my goal!
If contributing to the US machine is so abhorrent, you could just defect to Cuba, that haven of human rights.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4144 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
BigTex wrote:
zensui, don't compare Buddhism to anything else.
Just describe what it is.
This comparison business is only going to cause trouble.
The day that you truly sound indifferent toward what other people choose to believe will be a good day in your journey, I think.
It pains me to see you get bogged down in a whole lot of stuff that doesn't matter.
Smart stuff there BT. I like getting smarter and once in awhile around here it happens quite well. Thanks. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
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