Do a search and you will find much information on the BS they are sprouting.
Agree!!! No address, phone or fax.
Quote:
Purchase
The H2O 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator can be purchased for $6995. Please fill in the form below, and we will contact you directly to complete your order. We accept cash, check, and wire transfer.
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
methofuel wrote:
grabby wrote:
let heat + coal make methanol
methanol is the key.
No objections? Methofuel appears to be the winner.
So how do we get the heat? NG? Coal on top of the coal already needed? I don't see how this helps the situation. Soon we'll be looking at peak coal, anyway. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:53 am Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
There's some encouragement:
Quote:
Biomass resources can be used to produce methanol. Estimates of biomass resources available for use in the production of alcohol fuels range from one million to 4.7 million dry tons per day one ton equaling 100 gallons of methanol when biomass is also used to fuel the processing plant. Biomass resources include crop residues, forage, grass, crops, wood resources, forest residues, short-rotation wood energy crops and the cellulosic components of municipal solid waste. As a renewable resource, biomass represents a potentially inexhaustible supply of feedstock for methanol production. Contrary to popular belief, methanol is eligible for the same federal tax incentives as ethanol, in fact even a greater amount, if made from renewable resources.
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
The problem with that though is that those woodchips, residues and the sort are not wastes. They are necessary for life. They contain valuable nutrients and energy. If you take them away, then you will need to add fertilizer which is made of natural gas. So it's kinda pointless. You're still stuck on fossil fuels. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
mekrob wrote:
The problem with that though is that those woodchips, residues and the sort are not wastes. They are necessary for life. They contain valuable nutrients and energy.
Yes, they are the food source for detritivores, fungi, and all the other myriad organisms necessary for soil tilth. These organisms are then a food source for other creatures farther up the food chain that eventually leads to us.
We already consume 40% of the earth's NPP. How much more food can we take from the other livings things on earth so we can continue "happy motoring." _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
Probably all of it. _________________ ___________________________
WHEN THE BLIND LEAD THE BLIND...GET OUT OF THE WAY!
Using evil to further good makes one evil
Doubt everything but the TRUTH
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
One of the funnier arguements I've found supporting turning biomatter into methanol is that because you're turning plants into fuel, fuel into CO2 and H2O, and pumping those two back into the enviroment, it makes a perfect energy circle.
They fail to realize that at every step to convert biomatter into fuel there is a loss of energy and material due to waste and such.
This one makes any chemist worht their salt laugh. If you read their little "scientific" paper, they claim to have discovered a new type of bond (name fails me) such that the correct notation of this stuff is HxHO, where one Hyrdrogen atom is positively charged and the other hydrogen and oxygen atom are negatively charged.
So it ends up looking something like this: H- H+ O-. The real mystery is how they managed to create an electron out of thin air.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
sm5 wrote:
If you read their little "scientific" paper, they claim to have discovered a new type of bond (name fails me) such that the correct notation of this stuff is HxHO.
It's not "HOaX"? _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
It was a good HOaX though. They had doctored video on FOX news. One of my favorite things about the stuff was its ability to selectively cut through "steel", magically turn to water on what appeared to be aluminum (without melting the aluminum), and not harm the human hand.
On hydrogen itself, I remember many people touting this stuff as the saviour of the 21st century. But many fell flat on their face when the simple question of "How do they make the stuff?"
but HOHOHO is great for winter driving throw snow storms. _________________ ___________________________
WHEN THE BLIND LEAD THE BLIND...GET OUT OF THE WAY!
Using evil to further good makes one evil
Doubt everything but the TRUTH
This posted information is not permissible to be used
by anyone who has ever met a lawyer
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 125 Location: Tempe, AZ
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen economy - The physics
Science Direct.com wrote:
Abstract
The performance of a privately owned photovoltaic (PV) hydrogen production and storage installation in a one-family house at Zollbruck i. E. in Switzerland (altitude 630 m, latitude 46.9 N) has been studied. The manually controlled system has operated since 1991 and was built by its owner (M. Markus Friedli) mainly from commercial components. It consists of an array of roof mounted PV solar panels (65 m2 surface, 5 kWp average peak power, 8.4% average efficiency), a DC–DC converter (95% efficiency), an alkaline membrane electrolyzer (5 kW, 62% average electrolyzer efficiency), a hydrogen purification unit, a compressor, and two metal hydride storage tanks, a fixed one (capacity: 15 Nm3) for in-house storage to operate household appliances running on hydrogen such as a stove and a laundry machine, and a mobile one (capacity 16 Nm3) for running a hydrogen operated minibus. In-situ measurements during operation on three typical summer days and computer modeling based on standard meteorological data suggest a yearly hydrogen production of 1100 Nm3 (16 Nm3/m2 year), corresponding to an average efficiency of 3.6% for converting solar energy into hydrogen fuel for seasonal energy storage.
I would like to say that this is pretty interesting, but I can't because I don't know what the heck a cubic Nm is. It can't be a newton meter. Likewise, a nanometer would not make sense. Their mini bus would probably only run about 2 inches on that much hydrogen.
Anyway, it sounds like this family is operating a few of their appliances, and driving their car with the hydrogen that they make from their own solar cells. Sweet! I wonder if they could make their electricity from hydrogen fuel cells? I know that fuel cells aren't as efficient as batteries, but, as I understand it, hydrogen fuel cells do not wear out like batteries do.
65 square meters of solar cells though? Man, I bet those were expensive.
Last edited by xrotaryguy on Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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