Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6426 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
Make Nature your god, and do good works for Him and dwell in His spirit.
To me that makes far more sense than bending your knees to some Yaw-Weh invented by cruel old bearded men thousands of years ago to solve their political problems. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
That's really a sweet post, DYB.
I was once a devout, 19-year-old. I even contemplated entering the priesthood, or a monestary.
I'm now a 48-year-old pissed off faggot with a wicked knack for growing huge onions.
The mind. It's a terrible thing to waste. _________________ "By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
Maybe this is a turn in your spiritual path. If god is guiding you, maybe it isn't meant to be right now. You may have some other mission waiting for you beyond the priesthood. _________________ Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
RdSnt wrote:
It comes quite naturally to a man who has loved and raised children.
You think I'm harsh? Just wait till God gets a hold of you.
DYBoulet wrote:
RdSnt wrote:
At 19 you are too young to choose the priesthood, and from your lack of generosity in your writings it is fairly clear you are not ready.
I don' t hear the calling of God in your words, just the typical self-focus of a young man.
You are also too young to own a farm, even though property in NB is relatively cheap. I've lived there for many years and worked the land, it is good soil but much of it is neglected.
...
Practice and demonstrate humility and people will start to listen
Now I remember why I left these forums long ago...
How can you judge me so harshly?
Nice... Hawkman approves your angry, judgemental tone.
Punishment for all who deserve it... And even those who don't.
Jerk
Don't listen to these heretics.
You're doing just fine.
Skree! _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6426 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
Boulet, as I stated on the previous page, I really think the answer for you is a monastery, where you can simultaneously pursue your interests in spiritualism and agriculture. A remote monastery, where you can perhaps escape the worst of the coming events. This solution even appeals to me (sort of an agnostic) somewhat. I have my religious moments. I pray every night before dinner with my companion, who comes from deepest darkest missionary Africa. I don't reject religion per se, just the incredible misuse and abuse of it that surrounds us.
It could be a good life. Give it a shot. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
DYBoulet wrote:
This plan is, quite simply, to work towards a more self-sufficient life. By this I mean, life of the farmer. Thankfully, I live in a rural area where there's plenty of land and ressources for me to become fairly sufficient, provided I am educated as to how to work with nature.
Becoming self-sufficient of course, takes time. I probably never will be 100% self-sufficient, but each year, I can take steps towards this ideal of self-sufficiency.
One of the ideas that everyone takes for granted ihere s that, after peak, people will have to return to agricultural patterns and self-sufficiency patterns of the 19th or early 20th century.
But on second thought, this is probably something of a misapprehension of how the economics of food production and localized energy-efficient goods production will work in a world of very expensive fuels, extremely high technological knowledge, and much higher population. Most likely, industrialized agriculture (designed for maximized efficiency) will shift form and respond to the new economic conditions imposed by resource constraints. And like everything else in this world, the adaptation will be led by the world's creative types.
The idea of people returning en masse to farm individual plots - that is an interesting and appealing fantasy. But is it realistic? Often, the difficulty in life in general is trying to accurately peer through one's own illusions and delusions about what is true, realistic or likely. Making steadfast assumptions about the future is always a mistake - and one of the steadfast assumptions one always hears about on this board is that people will return to some Amish-like paradigm for farming, creating goods, etc. That whole thing may turn out to be utterly blinkered. The future tends to have that effect on people's predictions!
Meanwhile, those people really DO know about farming and really DO have creative ideas as to how tomost efficiently respond to the new economic conditions imposed by high costs and resource constraints - these people will be showing the rest of the world how to do it. And the rest of the world will be seriously paying attention! Their vision will not be hampered by pre-conceived notions about what form agriculture must take.
They say you can never go home. And that is no truer than forecasting that we will "go home" to the 19th century. No doubt, in a world of high population and great technological know-how, people will form large groups and pioneer adapted methods of industrialized agriculture. Those who are blazing trails in this area already are pragmatists.
If I were 19 and looking to be self-sufficient and become an practical expert on farming, I would start talking to people. Have you ever listened to KMO's podcasts? He knows a ton of people who are interested in this whole thing. Some of them seem very bright.
And KMO is totally accessible via email. Write him to ask for names and numbers of people you can hook up with to discuss this whole thing. If you are going to let yourself be affected by others, then choose the crowd whom you would most like to be affected by.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6426 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
It won't happen the way you say, Schadenfreude. It won't be an orderly process of the population returning to the land, driven there by high food prices etc.
There will be disorder and death---a shakeout of all the excess. Technology will crumble with the rest of it. The knowledge will remain in bits and pieces, but the tools will be broken, the purpose changed.
People can never live as they did in the 19th century because that world was by comparison pristine.
Our followers will be left with the leavings, and thin they will be. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
Move to Cuba for a few years, and get some experience in what may welll be the best of the New Peakoil World Order, since they have been getting some practice with a taste of it. Then you will be ready to go and be martyred reforming rhe rest of the world, most likely with the worst of the world's New Peakoil World Order, whose horrors I don't even care to describe, except it will make the Romans Jesus faced look good.
Joined: May 07, 2007 Posts: 434 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
The problem with economics, is that those who practice it, fail to understand that the "market" cannot respond if there is nothing with which to respond. We are seeing this now.
As for the originating poster, all I can say is to take one hour out of your time, and seriously think about who you are, who you want to be, how, and more importantly if you can get there (if you can't, then move to the next option, but make sure it's realistic, sensible and most importantly gives you more than one door to pass through if TSHTF for that particular option). If you have a significant other, make sure you include them in this 60 minutes of thought.
Hope that helps in some way.
Mike _________________ "That the cream cannot help but always rise up to the top, well I say, <censored by peakoil.com> floats"
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
s0cks wrote:
As we live in a world of free speech I should be allowed to voice my opinion.
What is this God cr*p?
You should be glad you didn't get to priesthood. It would have only of held you back. To be free of religion is to be truely free. To know you are not being critized for every action you take is truely free. To know you make your own destiny is truely to be free.
And don't give me the "you should respect my...." line. I can do as i please. Just as I choose not to respect drug addicts.
Let go of your chains. Get onto your Plan B and go for it. Do not wait around wandering what God thinks, or what other people think. To be self-sustainable will be a huge satisfaction and freedom in itself.
Quote:
Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82
I like the TJ quote. And I agree with everything you've said about religion.
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
Quote:
This plan is, quite simply, to work towards a more self-sufficient life.
I kind of like the idea, personally, but there are some minor issues.
When I was a young person, I did not have the nerve to try it. Things might have come out quite differently.
You should develop sort of a "business plan", in which you figure out what crops you are going to grow, how much of each crop you are going to need, and with advice from the county extension service, or the canadian equivalent, whatever that is, how much land you are going to need to be self sufficient.
Also, think about the expenses you will have, such as pesticides and fertilizers, and all of those jars you need to preserve everything through next winter.
You might be able to raise some money selling some of your crops to pay some of your cash expenses and to have "seed money" for next year. Example of a worthwhile cash expense: rent a rototiller for a couple of days to prepare the land without breaking your back.
Also, you will probably need to pay some property tax on the land you have, so you have to raise money for that as well.
After all of that, you will at least have an idea of what it is going to take to make it work. Then, much easier to make a decision.
I suggest you try it on a small scale first. In some places it is possible to rent a small plot of land to do some gardening. Get a day job (so as not to annoy the parents) and do this during your long New Brunswick summer evenings. If you are successful on a small scale, then you can more easily understand what it will take to do it on a big scale.
If you are successful this year, gradually expand until you are producing enough output to support yourself.
I recommend against going out into the country and trying to live in a shipping container, tending a little garden all day, without understanding what it will take to be self-supporting, both economically and from a nutritional standpoint.
The other posters are quite right, in that sometimes it makes more sense to do this with one or more people that think your way, and let them reduce your risk by teaching you what you do not know.
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
Before the age of 20 I spent a lot of time worrying about what other people thought of me...
Between 20 and 40 I didn't give a damn what other people thought of me...
After age 40 I realized other people didn't really think of me all that often...
Do what you want to do. You're going to stumble and fail a few times, if you're lucky, and you'll learn from it. The saddest people are those that manage to put off their first great failure until late in life, it usually crushes them. Practice a few times when you're younger and you'll be much stronger.
Joined: Mar 14, 2008 Posts: 43 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: Re: A complete turn-around.
bobaloo wrote:
Do what you want to do. You're going to stumble and fail a few times, if you're lucky, and you'll learn from it. The saddest people are those that manage to put off their first great failure until late in life, it usually crushes them. Practice a few times when you're younger and you'll be much stronger.
I must be all-powerful by now then. _________________ Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that suffering reaches its supreme point.
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