Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
kaktus wrote:
from my Swedish perspective, for example, production of ethanol is now being built up. the prod capacity that is now decided and will be in effect in a few years will as a coincident consume as much agricultural products as is now net exported annually the average year. this (and other countries efforts) will likely increase starvation.
I think this is an oversimplification.
After all, the countries that use the most fuel are rich countries, that have right now more than enough food. We could have an scenario where rich countries cut on food waste and use that excess land to grow fuel crops. This is what would happen in an ideal world.
In the real world, I expect a mixed response. Some countries, figuring that biofuels are clearly insufficient to maintain the status quo, may go for making sure that there are enough biofuels to keep essential transport going, and let everybody else figure out how to manage without. Some countries may go into big time denial of the energy problem and collapse. Some countries may go heavily into biofuels, find that it competes too much with food crops, and be forced to deal with the consequences. Some countries may go for liquifying coal instead of biofuels, and also be forced to deal with the consequences.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3665 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
Assuming a meager 2% annual groeth rate when the other fossil fuels are falling off seems very optimistic to me. Coal is the fuel of least resistence as it were, if Gas and Oil are in short supply Coal gets tapped faster with barely a thought given to the consequences. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
If Coal is used in Solid-Oxide Fuel Cell for electrical generations (there a few already) it doubles the efficiency and offers the ability to clean out contaminats like sulfer.
This does a couple of things. It opens up the massive coal reserves in the USA that are currently untapped due to sulfer...and it makes more electricity with less actual coal.
If we are going to use coal...which of course we will. Shouldn't we do it the most efficient way possible.?
Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 677 Location: Illinois
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
The energy watch group is predicting a peak in coal production in 2025. But the IEA is predicting a peak in 2060. Anyone read these 2 reports and come to a conclusion who's right?
ALBANY -- The state is joining the hunt for the holy grail of global warming -- a way to reach deep underground to permanently entomb fossil fuel-emitted carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that fuels rising temperatures.
This summer, geologists will study old natural gas wells and other subterranean features in the Southern Tier and western New York as potential resting places for pumped-in CO2 from power plants, under a $4 million, three-year program by the state Energy Research and Development Authority and a host of energy companies.
...found this interesting:
Quote:
Today, the cost of carbon storage appears prohibitively expensive at up to $300 per ton, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. That would greatly increase the cost of electricity generated by coal, which accounts for half of the nation's electricity.
The government's goal is to reduce that storage cost to less than $10 per ton by 2015.
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
kublikhan wrote:
The energy watch group is predicting a peak in coal production in 2025. But the IEA is predicting a peak in 2060. Anyone read these 2 reports and come to a conclusion who's right?
I'd have to say that the EWG is correct...
As you know- the IEA has a long history of predicting a peak in oil way down the line- mainly due to their faith in "reserves" instead of examining EROEI and recovery rates.
It looks like many countries, including the UK, Poland and Germany have overstated their reserves by as much as 50-90% recently.
Joined: Oct 17, 2005 Posts: 140 Location: Saratoga County, NY
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
Quote:
Here's an astonishing piece by the president of ASPO on the findings of peak coal and how they affect climate change....
ASPO on Peak Coal/Climate change
Quote:
Plans for making liquid fuels from natural gas in Qatar have been cancelled. Projected ports for the handling of liquefied natural gas in the US and Europe are being downscaled, as the global supply of liquefied natural gas will probably be lower than was expected only a year ago.
Yikes! There goes my plan for a new McMansion with the gas fireplace, gas furnace, gas dryer, gas hot-water heater for the three jacuzzis........
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3665 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
DarkDawg wrote:
Quote:
Plans for making liquid fuels from natural gas in Qatar have been cancelled. Projected ports for the handling of liquefied natural gas in the US and Europe are being downscaled, as the global supply of liquefied natural gas will probably be lower than was expected only a year ago.
Yikes! There goes my plan for a new McMansion with the gas fireplace, gas furnace, gas dryer, gas hot-water heater for the three jacuzzis........
No problem, just get all of the above in the coal fired model, coming to a showroom near you soon if not now!
Actually the old fashioned home boiler systems made with modern materials and computerized air controlls would be fairly efficient at burning coal, heating your water and home. There even used to be systems to use steam and ammonia to operate a central A/C system. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 49 Location: UK, Yorkshire
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
The UK still has a lot of coal - but the easy stuff has mostly gone. There's a lot of >1km deep coal that I guess we'll wind up excavating when peak oil really bites, for example see geology of yorkshire coalfield. It's my website BTW (many of my family worked down the pit before they mostly closed, and I have an interest in local history and geology). The coal seams slide ever deeper beneath the North Sea (I wonder if that's where some of the UK natural gas comes from when it gets cooked down there?).
The fact that the 'easy coal' has gone, yet huge quantities remain (I hesitate to call them reserves) does have parallels with peak oil.
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
I have hauled untold millions of tons of coal across the country and while its not the best or cleanest energy, until people decide to sacrifice some of their lifestyle, we will have to use it.
No one wants to turn off the AC or computers or lights in this country and indeed, think its their right to have all they want.
There is 250 yrs of coal at current levels of use and yes a plant in montan is turning coal into gasoline. South Africa has used this kind of fuel for many years. So its out there, takes money and incentive and less lobbyist in the oil and corn industry.
jj
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3771 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Coal - What are the ramifications?
joelcolorado wrote:
There is 250 yrs of coal at current levels of use
Again with the CURRENT LEVELS OF USE qualification. That's not happening and it's not going to happen, especially after coal starts acting as a standin for oil.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: THREE TIMES COAL USE
Okay with three to four times the use of coal we buy 80 years and if we dont have an alternate by then, we never will. Look at the advances in the last 100 years. Horseback to the moon. Good grief. We have the fuel in tar sands, oil shale and coal, wind and solar. We LACK the DESIRE only to make this happen. With just the money spent on war alone, we could develop a new fuel source etc.
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