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Peakoil.com :: View topic - Busting the Hubbert Myths Part I
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Busting the Hubbert Myths Part I
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WebHubbleTelescope
Intermediate Crude
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Joined: Jul 08, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Busting the Hubbert Myths Part I Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

jerry_mcmanus wrote:

Apologies for the confusion, but I thought that mathematical modeling of future trends based on observed statistical data is about as empirical as it gets, then it occured to me that most of the current depletion modeling, with the notable exception of your shock/dispersive model, is completely dependent on shot-in-the-dark SWAG's as to URR.

Cheers,
Jerry


I think the problems with economics is why most of the mathematicians have split to econometrics.

"Econometrics is concerned with the tasks of developing and applying quantitative or statistical methods to the study and elucidation of economic principles. Econometrics combines economic theory with statistics to analyze and test economic relationships. Theoretical econometrics considers questions about the statistical properties of estimators and tests, while applied econometrics is concerned with the application of econometric methods to assess economic theories"

And this gets very deep and obscure very quickly. Fertile ground for Nobel prizes based on recent selections.

Like you say, the statistical predictors are strongly supported, but without a firm model basis, it turns into a crap-shoot.
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Veritas
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Has the peak oil bell curve been disproven? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Greetings,

I was curious if the idea of oil production following a bell shaped curve has been disproved, as a colleague recently told me that it had been repeatedly shown that it is inaccurate.

Neither of us disputes that oil production will peak, and that it will happen sometime soon if it has not happened already. Where we disagree is whether the peak coincides with half of all oil being produced, and whether the right half of the curve will be a steep bell-shape or an undulating plateau.

While there are certainly repercussions in either case, if it is a bell-shape the implications are far more severe than if its a long slow decline.

This is important to know when people claim peak oil theory is false - for no thinking person can claim that oil production will never peak, but very intelligent people could argue that the peak will follow by very slow decline rather than a sharp decline. Is there any conclusive evidence one way or the other?

And if this is already covered in threads here I apologize, a link to said discussion would be great!

Thanks!
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Twilight
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the peak oil bell curve been disproven? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

The bell curve is employed as a mathematical model of the exploitation of a finite resource. It is just calculus. The real world does not perfectly follow a few lines of maths. Its greater complexity does not invalidate the principle however, namely that there will be a right hand side of the curve with a negative gradient.

I would object to any suggestion that the question of linear decline vs. exponential decline is a deal-breaker. The key word is decline, so immediately the difference is one of variety. And I am not sure that a linear decline is better than exponential. Exponential decline removes a fixed fraction in a fixed interval, which is bad at first, but at lower levels of production removes ever smaller quantities of production. Linear decline removes a fixed quantity in a fixed interval, which as time goes on, becomes proportionally more brutal. If your mitigation strategies involve long lead times, as ours surely would, you would prefer exponential decline.
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Twilight
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Has the peak oil bell curve been disproven? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

MattS wrote:
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic35082.html

Cheers. Ninth post down with the grey graphs is the one.
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Twilight
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Busting the Hubbert Myths Part I Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Here is an ideal illustrative model of how production lags discovery.

In reality it looks less tidy.

But the principle is the same - you have seen the dress rehearsal up to the final act, so you can roughly guess at what point you are halfway through the play on the one night that matters.
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BigTex
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Busting the Hubbert Myths Part I Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

WebHubbleTelescope wrote:
jerry_mcmanus wrote:
I recently transcribed a long and detailed analysis of fossil fuels written by Hubbert in 1976 for an energy textbook. The Hubbert Tribute site graciously agreed to host the article here:

http://mkinghubbert.com/resources/documents/outlook


Jerry did yeoman's work in transcribing this article and it contains lots of interesting ways to think about Hubbert's work that the people at CERA can't even begin to comprehend. (or more likely choose not to)


Bumping this link. That's a great article.

Hubbert was really ahead of his time.
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