How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 2346 Location: South of Atlanta
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
threadbear wrote:
We seem to be having an outbreak of pompous new posters on this thread and a few others. Interesting pyschologically, to many of us, including the more humble new posters. How quaint to watch them stick their big toe into the waters of alternative thought and then declare themselves Olympian swimmers. Those who have trouble keeping their heads above water, should resist bobbing up and down in the deep end of the pool while they hurl insults at swimmers, like Shortonoil, doing the butterfly around them. They should also try removing the anchor of academic conformity. It frees up the mind.
I don't think we have seen anything yet really. I was predictng this back sometime last year when we were still below 100$/bbl.
I'm guessing at some point it's going to get pretty ugly in here as denial seems to be such a powerful aspect of cornucopian thought.
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 2346 Location: South of Atlanta
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
mark000 wrote:
Ahhhh yes, the ultimate reason for doomerism: the sheeple have only 2 states: complacency or panic.
You forgot the most important one.
Lack of intelligence. There just are not that many folks trained to think and find answers for themselves, especially here in the states. The inability to grasp the concept tends to steer them in the wrong direction. It hampers our ability to come up with solutions.
It destroys our ability to bypass very tough times and lots of pain. I think that is why most of us who have been looking at this for any length of time are doomers.
I see no reasonable thought towards what Peak oil means and it is starting to appear we will waste far more effort on doing all the completely wrong things and playing the blame game instead of learning how to deal with less fuel and energy over the long haul.
It's important to try to find alternatives too, but we all know by now where that leads.
Joined: Mar 18, 2008 Posts: 122 Location: Upstate New York
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
I was in Bar Harbor Maine this past weekend and talked with a gas station owner. He told me the following.
1. He gets emails every day for pricing. current price is $4.14 for 87.
2. His price and the price of all the other stations is $4.19.
3. He bought a "unit" 5,000 gallons of gas for his station at $4.04 a couple of weeks ago.
4. After the credit card companies take their cut, paying for worker hours, lights, etc.. He is making about 1-3 cents a gallon or $50-$150 a unit.
5. If his supplier raises gas even 2-3 cents, his "profits" disappear and he is now forking over $100-200 out of his own pocket to get his gas.
This guy owns three stations and is selling tons of gas but is about to close down. Here is an interesting quote that he told me... "Have you ever heard of a business selling $20,000 dollars of merchandise and only getting $50 in profit or losing money and have it stay in business?"
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3832 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
Arsenal wrote:
I was in Bar Harbor Maine this past weekend and talked with a gas station owner. He told me the following.
1. He gets emails every day for pricing. current price is $4.14 for 87.
2. His price and the price of all the other stations is $4.19.
3. He bought a "unit" 5,000 gallons of gas for his station at $4.04 a couple of weeks ago.
4. After the credit card companies take their cut, paying for worker hours, lights, etc.. He is making about 1-3 cents a gallon or $50-$150 a unit.
5. If his supplier raises gas even 2-3 cents, his "profits" disappear and he is now forking over $100-200 out of his own pocket to get his gas.
This guy owns three stations and is selling tons of gas but is about to close down. Here is an interesting quote that he told me... "Have you ever heard of a business selling $20,000 dollars of merchandise and only getting $50 in profit or losing money and have it stay in business?"
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Another Gasoline Record
Quote:
I was in Bar Harbor Maine this past weekend and talked with a gas station owner. He told me the following.
1. He gets emails every day for pricing. current price is $4.14 for 87.
2. His price and the price of all the other stations is $4.19.
3. He bought a "unit" 5,000 gallons of gas for his station at $4.04 a couple of weeks ago.
4. After the credit card companies take their cut, paying for worker hours, lights, etc.. He is making about 1-3 cents a gallon or $50-$150 a unit.
5. If his supplier raises gas even 2-3 cents, his "profits" disappear and he is now forking over $100-200 out of his own pocket to get his gas.
This guy owns three stations and is selling tons of gas but is about to close down. Here is an interesting quote that he told me... "Have you ever heard of a business selling $20,000 dollars of merchandise and only getting $50 in profit or losing money and have it stay in business?"
True Vermonters vacation in Maine. Talk about carrying coal to New Castle! I used to
spend about a week every year around Bar Harbor and the beaches north of there.
Wonderful, beautiful area, and Maniacs are great people.
---------------------------------------
We can expect a lot of bizarre economic trends to come along with Peak. Like the most sought after commodity in the world after food, oil, with the highest prices in history, and nation wide we see that gas stations are selling out or going out of business. Refineries are barely making a profit, and if you included the replacement cost on their non-depreciated assets, they probably aren’t.
Oil wells are becoming holes in the ground into which one pours money, that in most cases, the owners aren’t going to get back. Prices go up and production goes down.
Peak Oil is changing all the old Died to Wolf rules about investment, money and economics. This is the era of paradigm change, and if you are carrying around a bundle of old ones, you will be lost in a world of nonsensical change.
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