Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 480 Location: Northern US
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Kinda agree with Pops (although I voted yes). I especially like Ron's fiscal stance.
Maybe "A vast number of PO members personally endorse RP." _________________ "...the problem is today we have unknown unknowns."
Dominique Strauss-Kahn; IMF chief
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: No. Calif.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Let's not be ludicrous here, or is that lucridous?? The man doesn't even have an energy policy and believes in the free market. I wonder how long that believe will last once he is in office? A lot of previous Republican supporters are obviously heading for the exits and he is their last stop!
The whole economic libertarian belief system is based upon a Cornucopean view of economics. If you doubt this, read the "Age of Abundance", published this year. It is over BTW and any legitimacy for libertarian economic policy will be over, too.
Anyway, obviously this is a non-partisan website and should be kept that way. So an empathic NO!
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 1855 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
I personally also ( at least to a large degree) believe in free markets.
Not that it will necessarily solve problems, but that markets left alone will find the optimal solution for the way forward.
I also hope that Ron Paul wins the election, for a multitude of reasons.
However this being a PO site, it would seem reasonable that po.com supports candidate(s) who seem informed about PO and show some willingness to take action (informing, mitigating etc).
To my knowledge RP, nor any other candidate, has spoken up about PO.
Politics is about much more than just PO, so unless oil depletion is a major item in a candidates forming of future policies, I don't think PO.com officially should support as doing this indirectly also supports that candidate on all other opinions. _________________ Lets take a ride, and run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
You cant hide, run with the dogs tonight
In suburbia
- Pet Shop Boys
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Yes we should endorse Ron Paul for president. I would also like PO.com to endorse the spirit of Frank Zappa for Secretary of State and the energizer bunny for the Secretary of Defense.
I like that Ron Paul thinks that conception begins at birth and would outlaw all abortions. I like that he doesn't have an energy policy or any concern one way or the other about Global Warming.
Yes- Ron Paul is the right man for the right time...and PO.com should make blanket political endorsements for its members...great idea!
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Don't you people realize he would be the worst candidate from a peak-oil perspective?
He is a great guy but he is a libertarian, a true conservative. Small government, low taxes, no government planning or interference. That is great from a business as usual perspective but not when you need massive collective action.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3647 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Aaron wrote:
Quote:
Let us all be individuals and act as we think is right on this matter, not as a collective where some are dragged along for things they do not beleive in but are expected to accept through association.
Sounds just like Paul to me... lol
Are my Libertarian stripes showing again? _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Considering he makes no mention of Peak Oil on his site and that in a youtube interview he said he'd let "the market handle it", I'd say you'd have to be an asshat to endorse him.
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
MattSavinar wrote:
Considering he makes no mention of Peak Oil on his site and that in a youtube interview he said he'd let "the market handle it", I'd say you'd have to be an asshat to endorse him.
But hey go for it.
No he's really amazing, and real, and he doesn't mince words, and he's against the Iraq war- he must be perfect for our site!!!
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Quote:
I like that Ron Paul thinks that conception begins at birth and would outlaw all abortions.
I'd love to know where you think he wants to outlaw all abortions. If you read his website, he clearly shows his position on the issue.
Quote:
I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. This is a practical, direct approach to ending federal court tyranny which threatens our constitutional republic and has caused the deaths of 45 million of the unborn.
He wants to overturn Roe v. Wade. That means getting the federal government out of a states issue.
You do refer to the conception beginning at birth, and that is correct, but pointless. Knowing Paul's position on the federal government, most of these tiny laws that would in fact make all abortions illegal (murder), would still allow abortions to occur. Why? Because he wants to dismantle the FBI and other federal criminal agencies. The only agencies that would be left to punish those that commit these "murders" would be the states and thus the issue of abortion is left to the states, which is the Libertarian way (from a federal standpoint). If states want to make abortion legal, they can by not enforcing that law.
As for those that are concerned about how the free market would NOT be good for PO/GW, think about how much money goes from the federal government to making sure that we have highways, cheap gas, airplanes, etc. Who bailed out, unconstitutionally, the airlines after 9/11? Who pays billions upon billions for a massive military that is used to secure oil reserves? Who paves the highways and roads? The government. Take government out of the equation and you get a much more level playing field. Gas goes up to $5.00 pretty quickly, much quicker than it would under anyone else who would keep US troops in oil-rich nations, keep a massive highway system going, etc.
Instead, under Paul, we would have progress because as gas goes up, more people move to the cities or get jobs at home or start farming. More people take the train instead of a car or, worse yet, a plane. We'd start to see real progress towards an oil-free world as the US would be exposed, for the first time in decades, to the reality of the oil situation currently facing the world. Under the administration of any of the other candidates, we'll get nothing but the same: more promises for nuclear, more war for oil, more attacks on Big Oil (who controls 10% of the market), and more tax breaks for ethanol.
Quote:
That is great from a business as usual perspective but not when you need massive collective action.
We've HAD massive collective action for the past 30 years with regards to energy policy. It simply doesn't work. The only mode that will work is a free market which will help out those in the rail and alternative energy industries and such. The massive collection action has brought us into partnerships with dictators who provide us with cheap oil and wars with dictators who don't. It's brought us to the brink of nuclear war with Iran. It's brought us nothing but misery and misfortune. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Some say libertarianism is Marxism of the right. Marxism is the delusion that society can function on altruism and collectivism alone, and libertarianism is the reciprocal delusion that it can function on selfishness and individualism alone.
I vote NO. I would say Dennis Kucinich is a better match for Peakoil.com but I don't think an endorsement is necessary.
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
I personally like most of what Ron Paul stands for. But it seems to me that if PO.com were to endorse a candidate then that candidate should at least have a clue about peak oil. I don't think Ron Paul understands the crisis looming ahead of us with respect to liquid fuels.
Nah, I don't think PO.com should make any political endorsements. _________________ “Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Absolutely Not!!.
He is the one of the worst candidates from a Peak Oil perspective; he doesn't seem to have the slightest clue on the matter.
Just because a large number of peak oilers relate to his extreme liberatarian views and most of us relate to his anti-war and pro liberties views; a lot of us dont want a candidate who has a do nothing policy on energy.
I dont think it is a bad idea for Peakoil.com to endorse a candidate; but that must be someone who is obviously well briefed on energy matters and who has a related strategy.
Someone like Al Gore if he decides to run. _________________ I play the cards I'm dealt, though I sometimes bluff.
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 633 Location: No man's land
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Should PeakOil.com Endorse Ron Paul for Prez?
Just did a little research on Dennis Kucinich. Dennis does acknowledge the magnitude of the threat posed by Peak Oil.
Quote:
robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Tue Jan-30-07 03:23 PM
Original message
DENNIS KUCINICH ON PEAK OIL: I’M READY TO LEAD THIS NATION
I spent this past Sunday afternoon at the St. Matthias Episcopal Church in Whittier, California to see Dennis Kucinich speak. After a very eloquent, passionate speech he opened the floor for anyone in the audience to ask him a question. Here is what transpired:
Me: Are you familiar with the Hirsch Report for the Department of Energy on Peak Oil that was one of Project Censored’s top 20 censored stories of 2005, and what would you do as President to prepare America for the global peak of oil production which Robert Hirsch believes could occur within the next ten years?
Dennis: (to me) Of course I’ve read the reports and I’m familiar with it. And Congressman Roscoe Bartlett, who is a Republican from Maryland has done some great work on the Peak Oil issue. (to audience) In a word, what Peak Oil means is it’s a point at which we pass the peak of an oil supply and we start to work on non-renewable resources being depleted. What does this mean? It means that they’ll seek other environments such as in Iraq and Venezuela in the inevitable way some of our leaders like the open markets. It also means there’s an urgency right now to work at conservation, I mentioned this earlier.
And a blurb from the Kucinich For President website:
Quote:
While the catastrophic impact of global warming is well documented, the U.S. has yet to rejoin the Kyoto Treaty. A Kucinich administration would immediately put the United States in the forefront of solving the global warming crisis by rejoining the Kyoto accord and implementing its recommendations. On the domestic front, I am an original co-sponsor in the House of Representatives of HR 1950, the Safe Climate Act of 2007. This is an act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and protect the climate introduced by Rep. Henry Waxman of California. As President I will continue to support the goals and targets of this important piece of legislation.
Oil is also an immense sustainability issue. With the peak of U.S. oil production some decades in the past and the world facing inevitable shortages in the near future, a continuation of our present energy policies is a prescription for unending conflicts. No candidate understands the precarious environmental perch man sits on more than Dennis Kucinich who has promised:
As President, I will lead the way in protecting our oceans, rivers and rural environments. I will also lead in fighting for clean, affordable and accessible drinking water. I have worked hand-in-hand with the environmental movement on many battles, from thwarting a nuclear waste dump to boosting organics to demanding labels on genetically-engineered products. A clean environment, a sustainable economy, and an intact ozone layer are not luxuries, but necessities for our planet's future.
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