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Graeme
Fission
Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 2567
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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A 'super grid' for Europe
| Quote: | Europe's electricity grids are old and often not capable of providing trans-border, much less trans-continent energy security. Yet one German energy expert has come up with a visionary scenario that would overhaul the grids, increase energy security and at the same time help avoid climate change.
Gregor Czisch's dissertation has rattled the energy world. Its main claim: Given the political will, Europe could within a few years meet 100 percent of its electricity needs from renewable energy sources, at no cost difference to today's fossil fuel-based system. The scenario includes the construction of a high-voltage direct current European super grid linking all countries in Europe, and the continent externally to Africa and the Middle East. |
energy-daily
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Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us. |
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americandream
Light Sweet Crude
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 1721
Location: kiwibush
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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Aaaaahhhh....another crazy think big scheme...how many other schemes were we promised would deliver this or that..and where are we instead...in a pickle!
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Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate! |
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mkwin
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 569
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| This one has been kicking around for a while. Interesting idea but highly improbable given the fragmented ownerwship and vested capital in the current system. |
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Windmills
Heavy Crude
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Joined: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 408
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| How does a high voltage AC grid differ from a high voltage DC grid? |
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davep
Expert
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 1205
Location: Burgundy, France
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| Windmills wrote: | | How does a high voltage AC grid differ from a high voltage DC grid? |
I always thought that you'd have much higher losses with DC transmission. Is this somehow negated by using high voltage?
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All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha |
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strider3700
Fission
Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 2680
Location: Vancouver Island
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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my understanding is ultra high voltage DC is more efficient then AC
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shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts |
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rdsaltpower
Tar Sands
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| Errr...Calling Nichola Tesla!!! |
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pawn
Tar Sands
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Herd of Cats
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| With DC, energy losses due to parasitic capacitances are eliminated. |
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jbeckton
Expert
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 1914
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Novus
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 1642
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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I have converted one room in my home from AC grid power to solar DC power stored in batteries. My energy saving are near 80% compared to the AC. The key is taking apart your electronic junk and removing the power converters. A computer running on pure DC with no converter is 50% more efficient. DC lighting is 90% more efficient than AC.
I used to believe switching to DC could "solve" the peak oil crisis. There are two problems. First we are completely out of time. Second, we can't eat DC power the same way we use the green revolution to feed the world. |
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EnergyUnlimited
Fission
Joined: May 15, 2006
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| pawn wrote: | | With DC, energy losses due to parasitic capacitances are eliminated. |
I would say parasitic inductances.
AC tend "not to see" capacitor, the higher frequency, the less it cares about it, but AC is really disturbed by prospect of encountering inductor (say bended wire). This is leading to voltage overtaking current in phase.
On the other hand DC is not bothered by inductors, but really mind about avoiding capacitors on its way.
Once these are fully charged, it doesn't want to flow anymore.
So DC is meant to avoid troubles related to inductance of transmission system.
NB. We are already connected to Middle East via our oil and gas needs and there are plenty of troubles because of that.
Now (regardless of already known problems) we are contemplating to make ourselves dependent of ME with our electricity needs.
That does not sound clever... |
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EnergyUnlimited
Fission
Joined: May 15, 2006
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| Novus wrote: | | DC lighting is 90% more efficient than AC. |
Could you develop more on that . I cannot work out why?
It suggest that fitting a diode in series with a bulb would make it shine substantially brighter.
That cannot be true.
Re computers.
I am just trying to imagine my good old Pentium III machine working at 0.000000 GHz processing speed.
So I would have to wait infinite time for any computation to be complete 
For processor to work initial DC supply (5.2V ?) must be made alternating by fast switching semiconductor gates.  |
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WatchfulEye
Tar Sands
Joined: Jun 07, 2007
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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| EnergyUnlimited wrote: | | Novus wrote: | | DC lighting is 90% more efficient than AC. |
Could you develop more on that . I cannot work out why?
Re com |
That's because it isn't true.
DC lighting is the same efficiency as AC lighting for the same technology.
There are differences between technolgies though. e.g. halogen is more efficient than conventional incandescent, and low-voltage halogen is more efficient than mains voltage halogen - but this is pretty small.
Similarly, the AC-DC converter in a modern PC is about 70% efficient for the cheapest nastiest one you can get, and about 86% for a decent model. As PCs have complex power requirements, it's unlikely that a DC-DC power supply will be able to better 86%, and most likely will end up being less for reasons of cost (due to smaller production runs). |
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Graeme
Fission
Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 2567
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: A 'super grid' for Europe |
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Next Generation of Energy Star Computers Offers Over $1 Billion in Energy Savings
| Quote: | Since the stringent new requirements for Energy Star computers became effective in July, more than 35 manufacturers have demonstrated their commitment to fight climate change by offering products that save energy. These newly qualified computers offer significant savings opportunities at home and in businesses. In fact, if every U.S. household and business replaced old computers with new Energy Star qualified models, we would save more than $1.8 billion in energy costs over the next five years and avoid greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to more than 2.7 million cars.
The new specification establishes efficiency requirements for all modes of operation, which ensures energy savings when a computer is active and running basic applications, as well as when it is on stand-by. Newly qualified computers must also include an internal power supply that is at least 80 percent efficient. Under the new specification, only the most energy-efficient computer equipment, including desktop and notebook (or laptop) computers, game consoles, integrated computer systems, desktop-derived servers and workstations, can earn the Energy Star label.
It will also be easier for consumers and businesses to find qualified computers and related equipment. Under the new specification, manufacturers must display the Energy Star label on the product and its packaging, in product literature, and on Web sites to clearly indicate which products meet the new specification. Qualified product listings can also be found on Energy Star's Web site at: http://www.energystar.gov/find_a_product and click on "Computers" |
EPA
_________________
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us. |
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