Joined: May 07, 2007 Posts: 434 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
Bas wrote:
that's what? 2 or 3 million barrels? will probably not have a big impact on the market, if any at all.
I prefer to look at it as one ULCC worth of crude.
Big Deal. How many ULCC's of around that tonnage transit the Straights of Hormuz every day?w _________________ "That the cream cannot help but always rise up to the top, well I say, <censored by peakoil.com> floats"
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1211 Location: Last outpost of Civilisation
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
Bas wrote:
JPL wrote:
France here (grin). There is a series of increasingly wierd memos coming out of Paris at the moment. Certainly the French press is obsessed with 'carbon targets' and doing 'whatever it takes' to cut energy consumption - 50% reduction by 2015 etc.... The whole country is suddenly going oil-reduction mad (well, madder than usual, grin).
I have this increasing suspicion that Sarkozy (President) has got the PO message. Just a suspicion (grin).
JP
interesting....and wise too to prepare for the worst case PO-scenario; it's indeed hard to imagine that a right wing politician would want to reduce carbon emissions by that much within such a short time-span. keep us posted!
Hi Bas,
This is the best I can find in English right now - doesn't mention the 50% target I heard on the radio but does (hopefully) give the general thrust. Like I said last week - about this sudden throwing out the hippies thing - some wierd sh*t's happening here right now ...
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
lateStarter wrote:
'Released' - what does that mean? Set free? I hope that doesn't mean sent to the US so those fat asses can continue to drive to McDonalds at the expense of the rest of the world.
I suspect the problem is that the way you worded that, it makes it sound as though all of us in the US are fat asses etc. It would have been more kind and accurate to say "... sent to the US so some fat asses can ..."
[From someone in the US who bikes to work, doesn't have a fat ass, walks by the nearest McDonalds a couple of days a week but has only been in there once to buy a hamburger for my dog Oh, and who also hopes that the smart folks in France aren't sending anything to the US so some fat ....]
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
Andrew_S wrote:
Quote:
LONDON -(Dow Jones)- France has released 285,000 metric tons of crude oil from its strategic petroleum reserve, a spokesman from the French finance ministry said Thursday.
The country has taken action as a result of a short-term shortage of crude oil and products, spokesman Jean-Marc Plantade said.
Please enlighten me, at least. How does releasing more crude oil help with refinery maintenance closures (mentioned as the cause of shortages in the two missing sentences)?
I small a rat. _________________ 100% of the electricity needed for this post was generated by ME.
<p>
<A HREF="http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen/green_virtual_gym.html">Posted from a Pedal Powered Computer</A>
Joined: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 3022 Location: St.Louis, Mo
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
lateStarter wrote:
Armageddon wrote:
lateStarter wrote:
'Released' - what does that mean? Set free? I hope that doesn't mean sent to the US so those fat asses can continue to drive to McDonalds at the expense of the rest of the world.
If it wasn't for the US, you wouldn't be posting on this message board or for that matter, you wouldn't be on internet. Your computer would also suck without microsoft.
What a dumb crap. Do you know where the largest 'Carrier Hotel' in the world is located? I'll give you a clue (not the US). How about the top 4? Nope.... And, I'm pretty sure my laptop would run just fine without MS. My other 2 do just fine.
Nationalism is just as bad as the rest of the 'isms... Give it a break!
Isn't calling all American's fatasses a form a nationalism ? I find it funny someone from Poland making fun of an American.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4544 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
Armageddon wrote:
Typical European condescending attitude.
Oh get over yourself.
Back to French strategic oil release:
I'm with Bas on that one.
I was expecting gasoline prices to rise much more significantly before the physical shortages.
I think once the supply picture gets below a certain margin...gasoline prices are going to explode. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
SolarDave wrote:
Please enlighten me, at least. How does releasing more crude oil help with refinery maintenance closures (mentioned as the cause of shortages in the two missing sentences)?
I small a rat.
Presumably, since they are "releasing" it from the SPR, it is needed.
Reduced refinery capacity might mean it takes a bit longer to reach the customer.
I'm no expert but at the time of hurricane Katrina when Europe and Japan "released" stocks onto the market from their SPRs, it was said that their SPRs are refined product. This was important because U.S. refinery capacity was down, I believe, due to the hurricane, but they could buy some of this refined product.
So if a shortage were really close at retail, I suppose refined product would be "released" (assuming such stocks still exist).
Unless it isn't really needed and it's just to influence opinion.
Last edited by Andrew_S on Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
Quote:
'Released' - what does that mean? Set free? I hope that doesn't mean sent to the US so those fat asses can continue to drive to McDonalds at the expense of the rest of the world.
Hey, I'm all-American and I agree completely. Reports say we have obesity rates in the 30's and the rate's rapidly increasing (obesity is a level over "overweight").
Peak Oil might make Americans healthier at first. They said Cubans became healthier after the Soviet Union pulled it's support and they had a recession.
We also consume about twice as much energy as Europeans and even their consumption is too much. At least Europeans seem to realize it. Most Americans don't realize the need to reduce consumption.
I think an intial short-term oil shock would be a good thing in that it might wake Americans up to the fact that there are many more coming and we need to do something about it. Of course, I've been hoping we would be pre-emptive and prepare before the need.
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
SolarDave wrote:
Please enlighten me, at least. How does releasing more crude oil help with refinery maintenance closures (mentioned as the cause of shortages in the two missing sentences)?
I small a rat.
DantesPeak posted a longer article over at the European Fuel Shortage thread (which I didn't know of when I started this thread):
DantesPeak wrote:
Quote:
France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stks
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
November 1, 2007 2:27 p.m.
LONDON (Dow Jones)--France has released 285,000 metric tons of crude oil from its strategic petroleum reserve, a spokesman from the French finance ministry said Thursday.
The country has taken action as a result of a short-term scarcity of crude oil and products, spokesman Jean-Marc Plantade said.
Cold weather, a hike in consumption and "tensions" in the crude oil and heating oil markets drove the government to release stocks, the spokesman said.
Plantade said oil product supplies in the country had become more scarce due to planned maintenance at two major refineries in France.
Total SA's (TOT) 116,000 barrel a day Feyzin refinery is partially shut for a 7-week maintenance period. The company's 331,000 barrel a day Gonfreville plant was shut for partial maintenance on Sept. 3, and its Oct. 15 restart was thought to have been delayed by several days.
The government hopes "that the maintenance work will be over soon," Plantade added.
France's strategic petroleum reserves in 2005 totaled approximately 65 million barrels, according to IEA data.
subscription may be required
A "short-term scarcity of crude oil and products" - so crude is scarce also.
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
Armageddon wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:
Armageddon wrote:
Typical European condescending attitude.
Oh get over yourself.
Back to French strategic oil release:
I'm with Bas on that one.
I was expecting gasoline prices to rise much more significantly before the physical shortages.
I think once the supply picture gets below a certain margin...gasoline prices are going to explode.
Typical American moderator
Please people. Don't feed the trolls. Even though I have *sigh* _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
Question: How do you stop a Polish army on horseback?
Answer: Turn off the carousel.
Question: Did you hear about the Polish Helicopter crash?
Answer: The pilot got cold, so he turned off the fan
BRIDGING THE GAP
The Polish government was tired of being the brunt of so many jokes about their stupidity so they decided to start a building project to prove that they weren't as dumb as the rest of the world made them out to be.
"Gentlemen," said the Minister of Public Works, "we have decided that we can prove to the world that we aren't as dumb as the world says we are by building the world's largest suspension bridge!"
The assembly 'ooh-ed' and 'ahh-ed' with appreciation. "But to really show our intellectual superiority, we are going to build it in the most conspicuous and difficult place on Earth; the Sahara Desert!" Suddenly the assemblage erupted in mass confusion. Everyone was shouting, and slapping the Minister of Public Works on the back.
They all agreed that this would settle this stupidity issue once and for all. And so they commenced to building. Several months passed before the government council reconvened.
The Minister of Public Works sadly took the pulpit. "As you have no doubt heard gentlemen, the suspension bridge construction project is an unmitigated disaster. The world is laughing even harder at us than ever before. We shall have to destroy it."
The Minister of Foreign Relations asked for the floor. "I'm sorry to report this, gentlemen, but we cannot destroy the bridge. "Once again the government council broke out into mass confusion. Shouts of consternation were heard on every tongue.
Finally, the hubbub died down enough for the Minister of Foreign Relations to be heard. "I know, I know," he cried, "but we just cannot get it torn down. Every crew we have sent there winds up fishing off of the side!" _________________ Iran: 'Murrica's FINAL frontier
Joined: Apr 06, 2005 Posts: 1004 Location: 38 km west of Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
kjmclark wrote:
lateStarter wrote:
'Released' - what does that mean? Set free? I hope that doesn't mean sent to the US so those fat asses can continue to drive to McDonalds at the expense of the rest of the world.
I suspect the problem is that the way you worded that, it makes it sound as though all of us in the US are fat asses etc. It would have been more kind and accurate to say "... sent to the US so some fat asses can ..."
[From someone in the US who bikes to work, doesn't have a fat ass, walks by the nearest McDonalds a couple of days a week but has only been in there once to buy a hamburger for my dog Oh, and who also hopes that the smart folks in France aren't sending anything to the US so some fat ....]
You are correct. Sorry for the sweeping generalization. Obesity is even starting to become a problem here in Warsaw among the young people with the onslaught of McDonalds and KFC.
I would just like to see the enabling of 'happy-motoring' come to an end and not just in the US, although let's face it they are the world leaders in that department. BTW, I lived in the states for most of my life (50 years) so I think I have a good handle on the 'real' situation. US citizen although not always proud to admit it these days.
Since we aren't facing the upcoming problem wrt oil in a rational, proactive manner, I'd just assume see some 'tough love' meted out as a wake up call. Some actual shortages or prices at the pump that reflect reality might help put an end to the fanatasy that we can continue on the same path.
Draining SPR's to maintain the illusion short term is not a solution, it is a disaster in the making. _________________ Remember, with globalisation "everyone is a winner" in the "race to the bottom". - rogerhb
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A.C. Clarke
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: Re: France Releases 285,000 Tons Crude From Strategic Stocks
Bas wrote:
MacG wrote:
Bas wrote:
that's what? 2 or 3 million barrels? will probably not have a big impact on the market, if any at all.
Then why release it at all?
2-3 million barrels is equivalent to 3-4 million full tanks in personal vehicles, and that's a hell of a lot if it's NOT there when people expect to fill up.
yes you're right, they didn't do this to manipulate prices and were probably anticipating an acute shortage, and that is spooky.
I was also expecting that the market would kill off demand before any shortages would occur, but over the course of this year it has become increasingly clear to me that higher prices alone will probably not do the trick. Acute shortages in the Western world may not be very far off. We'll see.
I agree with your reasoning, Bas. I have been thinking along these lines for a time now.
My hypothesis continues like this: the first and maybe the second shortage crisis in the first world big economies (US, France, UK, Germany) will be shrugged off as an anomaly. On the third go round, provided all of them are serious in nature*, I expect peak oil -talk to permeate the mainstream, the prices of crude and of gasoline to skyrocket, and the stockmarket to plummet.
Happiness.
(*and why shouldn't they be? gas shortages are like that in the aforementioned first world economies aren't they?)
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Oh, and who also hopes that the smart folks in France aren't sending anything to the US so some fat ....]
*sigh*
