For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegals
Quote:
In a staggering sweep in California, 1,300 illegal immigrants have been arrested. Last week, federal agents in Nevada raided 11 McDonald's restaurants as part of a crackdown on illegal immigrants. In New York's Nassau County, armed Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials raided homes in the middle of the night in search of gang members and fugitives.
This morning however the Washington Post is reporting:
Quote:
"Immigrant Crackdown Halted
Judge Delays DHS Plan to Check Social Security Numbers"
A federal judge yesterday barred the Bush administration from launching a crackdown Tuesday on U.S. employers who hire illegal immigrants while she considers a lawsuit by the AFL-CIO that charges that the plan will harm citizens and other legal workers.
Post _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
yes, it is their job and responsibility. _________________ "Crush the Cornucopians, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women".
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
As long as the "illegals" don't file for government bennies or do anything illegal, they have a right to come here to live and work. God knows this country needs lots of workers to do the jobs which are beneath us Natural Born residents.
My ancestors had no Social Security numbers, no Medicare/Medicaid, no free lunch whatsoever. They were completely unknown to the Federal government. Contrary to popular belief (and this belief appears to be strong among some moderators on this board based on posts of mine which have been deleted), you do not need a license to work and live in this country.
On the other hand, if you want to come here and commit crimes and/or get free s**t from the government without first going through the process of Naturalization, you deserve to be arrested and deported. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 3684 Location: over here
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
it's a lose-lose situation in terms of finances; The US economy will suffer and tracking down/deporting costs alot of money....why do we have those arbitrary borders between states anyway? it's so..... ant like.
ok, I guess being a "foreigner" myself here my opinion doesn't really count.
*slowly and carefully backs out of thread* _________________ "The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
I'm all for mass deportations.
As the U.S economy declines, the problem of finding workers for distasteful jobs will evaporate. Then, as Mexico crashes due to Cantarell and overpopulation, we can seal the border.
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 3684 Location: over here
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
Jack wrote:
I'm all for mass deportations.
As the U.S economy declines, the problem of finding workers for distasteful jobs will evaporate. Then, as Mexico crashes due to Cantarell and overpopulation, we can seal the border.
The times, they are a'changing - and in this case, very much for the better!
I hope we dutch can still come over when our country disappears under them wavez. We speakz very good English and we be mostly white
Are you showing your true colors here Jack, or are you just as sick of all the frightening posibilities that come with economic decline as I am and is your tough talk just a way of dealing with it?
(I knew I shouldve stayed out of this thread) _________________ "The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
Bas wrote:
I hope we dutch can still come over when our country disappears under them wavez. We speakz very good English and we be mostly white
Bas, with your environmental background, you - of all people! - should recognize that the world is in overshoot. Arguably, the U.S. is too. Despite the many laudable qualities of the Dutch people, their rich culture, and their many positive contributions to the world, I have to ask whether there is space for them or anyone else.
Still, I'd much rather welcome the fine people of Holland than a whole lot of others, for all of the foregoing reasons.
Bas wrote:
Are you showing your true colors here Jack, or are you just as sick of all the frightening posibilities that come with economic decline as I am and is your tough talk just a way of dealing with it?
My true colors? Bas - when have I ever hidden my colors? Deep down, I do not like people. I should think that was obvious by now!
Among the overall group of "people", I dislike poor people even more. So if very rich Mexicans wish to come over and buy expensive houses, found businesses, and hire Americans, I wouldn't mind accomodating them...for a price. (By the way, this is precisely what is happening right now....one might think they knew something, mightn't one?)
As for economic decline...if it helps me and hurts most others, I like it. This is not "tough talk" - no toughness is involved. It's just better if it hurts others.
Joined: Oct 11, 2005 Posts: 408 Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
I think we should do a better job of sealing the boarder simply because there will come a time when illegals actually are competing with us for jobs we need. As long as there are enough jobs to go around, as it is now, we'll just keep fumbling for a funding, policy, and enforcement. Once peak oil creeps more deeply into the USA, we'll see some real border action as Americans start fighting over all the crappy jobs we have others do right now. It's a problem that will remedy itself once the economy becomes depressed enough. If we we're willing to engage in a civil war that was to a major extent about jobs and kill each other, we'll certainly turn on the foreigners even more quickly.
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 3684 Location: over here
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
Jack wrote:
Bas, with your environmental background, you - of all people! - should recognize that the world is in overshoot. Arguably, the U.S. is too. Despite the many laudable qualities of the Dutch people, their rich culture, and their many positive contributions to the world, I have to ask whether there is space for them or anyone else.
Still, I'd much rather welcome the fine people of Holland than a whole lot of others, for all of the foregoing reasons.
Apart from being quite green I also have a strong humanist/ethical side; this combination is not a very fortunate one, in fact it's mindwrecking on a regular basis. *sigh*
Quote:
My true colors? Bas - when have I ever hidden my colors? Deep down, I do not like people. I should think that was obvious by now!
Among the overall group of "people", I dislike poor people even more. So if very rich Mexicans wish to come over and buy expensive houses, found businesses, and hire Americans, I wouldn't mind accomodating them...for a price. (By the way, this is precisely what is happening right now....one might think they knew something, mightn't one?)
As for economic decline...if it helps me and hurts most others, I like it. This is not "tough talk" - no toughness is involved. It's just better if it hurts others.
I trust that clarifies my position?
Still I think you care more than you'd like to admit, or maybe even than you'd like to be. I'm sorry but I cannot escape that impression. Your position though is a very rational one, and I see your "sick" kind of humor as a healthy psychological way of dealing with the hard truths we discuss here; you play with that humor on the sense of ethics of others, indicating it's well developed within yourself. But I shouldn't pretend to know you, because I hardly do.
For myself, I've grown increasingly hateful of people who really don't care (of whom there are very few IMO), the dumb, the ignorant and the insensitive. Rich or poor doesn't really matter to me on an individual basis, as both rich and poor are IMO prone to be just as dumb, insensitive and ignorant though the distribution of the different qualities may differ. And it's mostly paper wealth in this world anyway, you should judge more on skills. I do dislike the more wasteful ways of the rich...both in people as in countries as a whole, and I also dislike them for having the means to, but failing to put those excess means to good use in adressing some of the big problems we have in this world. This is a generalization though, and one that makes me hate myself for not doing "enough" eventhough I'm not rich by western standards.
Either way, it's clear to me that I'm too much stuck on the big issues in a way that isn't healthy and I probably should take you and others as an example in order to be succesful in the future. This is easier said than done though...
Oh wait, we were talking about illegals _________________ "The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
Pretty interesting results so far.
Says a great deal about our demographics on this website I think.
Polarized. _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Joined: May 13, 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Athabasca, Alberta
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
What can we do to stop americans coming into Canada. Prehaps an electic fense. One string. Works with cattle, should work. _________________ Appuis ait fabrum esse suae quemque fortunae.
Alias Redneck
Last edited by Blacksmith on Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4114 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
About once or twice a year ICE (and INS before 2003) rounds up and deports a few thousand illeals in highly publicized raids like the ones linked above. These raids amount to something on the order of 1/5,000th of the illegal population in the USA and are done solely to gain publicity for political reasons.
Rounding up a few illegals at McD's has nothing at all to do with reducing the number of illegals, which will never occur because it's against the interests of both major political parties and industry.
Keep in mind that, depending on the season, 500 to 1,000 people are allowed to illegally enter the USA each day, mostly from Mexico, but many others are allowed to illegally enter the easy way arriving on international flights posing as H1B's, tourists, business visitors, students, cultural exchange applicants, etc. The US has a very open border because TPTB want it that way.
And Jack, there is no way the USA will conduct 'mass deportations' of illegals no matter how beneficial it would be. Remember, the USA spends billions annually putting on an elaborate show 'pretending' to stop illegal border crossings. America could easily and humanely stop nearly all illegal crossings, but we lack the collective will. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
eastbay wrote:
And Jack, there is no way the USA will conduct 'mass deportations' of illegals no matter how beneficial it would be. Remember, the USA spends billions annually putting on an elaborate show 'pretending' to stop illegal border crossings. America could easily and humanely stop nearly all illegal crossings, but we lack the collective will.
You're absolutely correct. I'll be putting together a longish post later today that supports your position entirely.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11996 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
No, it's a waste of time and resources. To solve the illegal immigrant "problem" we should either try to help other countries fix the economic situations which make people want to come here in the first place or we should prosecute those who hire illegals. Neither of these solutions will be implemented so running around after illegals is a waste of time.....but no doubt a growing industry.
I never know whether to roll my eyes or grit my teeth over the immigrant issue. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
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we should either try to help other countries fix the economic situations which make people want to come here in the first place or we should prosecute those who hire illegals. Neither of these solutions will be implemented so running around after illegals is a waste of time.....but no doubt a growing industry.
