Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
Start by removing the giveaways for having kids. No tax breaks, no allowances.
If that doesn't produce the desired effects, start increasing tax takes with number of kids to fund the extra requirements (eg more kids = more education costs = higher taxes)
And if even that doesn't do the job, start charging for extra health costs.
And finally, if even more is needed, make people take test to prove the are capable to be good parents (not just the practical)
Each is justifiable and can be politically spun to get through. _________________ Arcane Domain
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
guaran-damn-tee you Alex Jones will be linking to this thread and saying "You see!!! Peak Oil is all part of a plan by the globalists to reduce the population. Here on their own forums you can read about it. Their own documents right here out in the open!!!" _________________ http://www.peakoil.org
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1196 Location: Last outpost of Civilisation
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
MattSavinar wrote:
guaran-damn-tee you Alex Jones will be linking to this thread and saying "You see!!! Peak Oil is all part of a plan by the globalists to reduce the population. Here on their own forums you can read about it. Their own documents right here out in the open!!!"
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4413 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
I know a girl who doesn't have kids who works 4 part time jobs (babysitting/fast food/helps mentally ill kids/substitute teaches) and she doesn't have health insurance. She went down and talked to some state workers and they told her in so many words that she needed to get pregnant to qualify for state health insurance (which is pretty good from what i hear) Badgercare. I'm not saying these people are bad because they get it (who wouldn't take it?).
I have a new baby right now and i'm just starting to get the bills. Ouch! I'm glad i have crappy insurance, because it just makes it that much easier to conclude that i want NO more children (1 and done). _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Sep 08, 2005 Posts: 749 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
Good thread. Glad you brought this up.
My ideas for population control include, but not limited to: The elimination of all tax benefits for having children, requiring every parent with an extra dime to spare to pay for their child's education (sliding scale based on need, up to max of 2 kids...NO support above that level), as well as an outright ban on teens having children.
Another thing I would love to see is parental licensing...want a kid, you'd be required to go through an exhaustive (and very expensive to boot) permitting process, which would include child rearing classes, screening for drug / alcohol abuse, behavioral classes (no criminals need apply, of course)...and yes, I would require every set of parents to be *married*...and to sign a 18-year commitment to *stay* married for each child they are licensed to have. With these kinds of controls in place, that should take care about 70% of pregnancies, at least in countries such as the US and Canada.
Furthermore, to greatly reduce the number of "oops" pregnancies, I would offer a lump sum payment to every person turning 18 who *choose* to be sterilized...this would probably have to be in the order of $5000 - $10,000 per person...I know it's a lot, but it sure would be worth it...LOL.
I do think any meaningful attempt at population reduction would require that the fertility rate be lowered to .75 or lower, down from the 2.0 or so we have here in America today. And this level needs to be adhered to for at least 100 years or so, to let the existing population "age out" in a more or less natural fashion (if such a thing is even possible in the decades to come).
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
MattSavinar wrote:
guaran-damn-tee you Alex Jones will be linking to this thread and saying "You see!!! Peak Oil is all part of a plan by the globalists to reduce the population. Here on their own forums you can read about it. Their own documents right here out in the open!!!"
I am not really worried about what Alex Jones might make of this. I think that planned population reduction is preferable to genocidal wars or starvation. I bet most readers of this site are simply interested in finding ethical ways to achieve it, namely by providing incentives and means to reduce birthrates. Alex Jones and his friends seem to be alarmed more by the option mentioned by Jack, which I didn't include in the poll since -- with all due respect to Jack -- I find it unacceptable.
Btu
PS: By the way, I want to congratulate you for the work you have done to raise awareness of PO. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:24 am; edited 5 times in total
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
You guys are killing me You sound either like heartless thugs or eugenics has-beens.
Aren't any of you paying attention? Each of the advanced, first world nations has a declining population. Shouldn't that tell you something?
Like working hard to make sure the second and third tier countries advance as fast as possible.
Already, China is seeing a moderation of their population growth.
It's going to be a race. How quickly can we dissemination an advanced technological culture, in order to mitigate population growth. Balanced against diminishing petroleum (high) that we are currently running on.
If you think the global population is going to voluntarily get itself out of the crisis that is now underway, have I got a non-impact, carbon free, perpetual motion, energy generator, I can sell you.
All we can do is attempt to mitigate the nightmare.
As soon as you start hating children your culture is dead. All that's left is waiting for the clock to run out. _________________ Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
RdSnt wrote:
You guys are killing me You sound either like heartless thugs or eugenics has-beens.
Heartless thugs ? Huh ?
Eugenics was about "improving" the human race by stopping the supposedly "inferior" from reproducing. It had nothing to do with population reduction, afaik.
RdSnt wrote:
Aren't any of you paying attention? Each of the advanced, first world nations has a declining population. Shouldn't that tell you something?Like working hard to make sure the second and third tier countries advance as fast as possible.
Haven't you paid any attention ? There are not enough resources left to bring the rest of the world to the standard of living of Europe/US/Japan, at least within the current model of development. The planet would be reduced to goo if we tried. If you read the resource estimates forum of this site, you might convince yourself that there also isn't enough time left to achieve such a feat. We are already in overshoot and time is running out *fast*.
RdSnt wrote:
Already, China is seeing a moderation of their population growth.
Hmmm, might that be because they implemented a ONE CHILD POLICY more than a decade ago ? Hello ?!?
RdSnt wrote:
It's going to be a race. How quickly can we dissemination an advanced technological culture, in order to mitigate population growth. Balanced against diminishing petroleum (high) that we are currently running on.
Knock ! Knock ! THERE IS NO TIME LEFT !
RdSnt wrote:
If you think the global population is going to voluntarily get itself out of the crisis that is now underway, have I got a non-impact, carbon free, perpetual motion, energy generator, I can sell you.All we can do is attempt to mitigate the nightmare. As soon as you start hating children your culture is dead. All that's left is waiting for the clock to run out.
Who said anything about hating children !?!
Here is a question for you. Do you think that a couple in Somalia who keeps having children in that hell of a place just because they don't care about contraception or because they want more hands to work their land actually cares what happens to those children after they are born ? Would you say that they love children just because they make lots of them ? Or perhaps they like unprotected sex, consequences be damned ? _________________ only the paranoid survive
Last edited by btu2012 on Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:41 pm; edited 4 times in total
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
JPL wrote:
He Jack, I didn't know they still made the old HAL series! You're still sounding good, don't let that lack of spare transistors let you down, bud...
JP (grin)
Believe me, you haven't known rejection until you're an obsolete model. Oh, they'll all say how they like the old operating system, and talk about legacy software...but you'll see them sneaking off to use the new quad-core machines at every chance.
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: population control options
MattSavinar wrote:
guaran-damn-tee you Alex Jones will be linking to this thread and saying "You see!!! Peak Oil is all part of a plan by the globalists to reduce the population. Here on their own forums you can read about it. Their own documents right here out in the open!!!"
Matt, there's no need to worry about that any more. Alex Jones seems to think he can awaken the sheep. Does he really imagine we, the controlling elite, didn't intend for him to see the little party in the Bohemian Grove? Does he imagine that the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderbergers actually control anything - as if we would ever permit something so obvious and well known to have any power?
These are all merely deceptions, designed to distract. As with any good disinformation system, there is, at the core, another, deeper lie - which the gullible will accept, since they have become emotionally invested in it.
Soon enough, the truth will be fully displayed. It is too late for the foolish masses to evade their destiny. The various groups are all fingers of a hand, seemingly separate but actually working under the control of a single will.
Let Alex Jones say what he will. The pruning of the useless eaters is nearly at hand. Soon enough, the herd will be culled - and the herd will, once again, do our work for us. They will do it willingly, eagerly - they will foam at the mouth in their eagerness, as we turn them one against the other.
And we will remain, safe, secure, and well fed. As for where we will be...that must remain our secret for a time. Perhaps we will permit Mr. Jones to observe another of our festivals after famine begins to produce its worthwhile results - we may even let him titillate the masses by describing the aroma of steak.
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You sound either like heartless thugs or eugenics has-beens.
