Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4860 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
That is almost what the Norweigian girls look like, but you've got to remove the bikini top to get the full effect.
Last time I was in Norway the girls at the beaches were topless. The girls at the University sunbathed topless o the lawns around the campus inbetween classes. And when I went trekking in the Jotunheim National Park, the girls went swimming nude in the lakes.
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
Bas & Steinar, you should note that Norway is not part of the EU and Bas might not be able to just move to Norway. However, being Dutch, Bas can easily move to Denmark, Finland or Sweden, live there for the required time to obtain citizenship and thereafter move to Norway. The Scandinavian countries have had a common labor market (and passport union) for their citizens since the 1950s.
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
nocar wrote:
Bas & Steinar, you should note that Norway is not part of the EU and Bas might not be able to just move to Norway. However, being Dutch, Bas can easily move to Denmark, Finland or Sweden, live there for the required time to obtain citizenship and thereafter move to Norway. The Scandinavian countries have had a common labor market (and passport union) for their citizens since the 1950s.
nocar
I'm absolutely aware my home country, Norway, is not a member of EU. However Norway is a part of Europe which is the title of this thread.
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
Yes STeinar, I know Norway is part of Europe, and I am also a little tired of people equating Europe with the EU. I was hoping you could provide information about the current immigration laws and practices of Norway. I agree that Norway might be one of the best places in Europe postPO. But will you let just anyone in? The thread titleis also about emigration.
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
nocar wrote:
I was hoping you could provide information about the current immigration laws and practices of Norway. I agree that Norway might be one of the best places in Europe postPO. But will you let just anyone in? The thread titleis also about emigration.
nocar
I dont know the imigration laws in detail. We have a great deal of imigration workers. It shouldnt be a problem to get a "work licence". I dont know how easy it is to get a permanent "living licence". I think you have to work in Norway for maybe 10 years before you can apply for citizenship. Sorry I cant give more acurate details.
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
I don't know if this is true but I've heard that if you promise to make fun of Svedes whenever possible, learn to ski and become a Viking, they will let you stay in Norway forever. Thor rules!
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
manu wrote:
I don't know if this is true but I've heard that if you promise to make fun of Svedes whenever possible, learn to ski and become a Viking, they will let you stay in Norway forever. Thor rules!
LOL!
That about Swedish people is maybe correct.
But I guess it is the same about Norwegian in Sweden. Just some friendly joking.
If I was Swedish I would probably decided to stay put there also.
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
I am a Briton of English and Welsh ancestry and I personally plan to stay put, come what may. This is partly influenced by the fact that I am politically nationalist and I don't believe in dumping my problems on other people in other countries.
I do not believe that peak oil will result in starvation in developed countries or stresses large enough to lead to mass migrations. Nor do I think that things will necessarily be an order of magnitude better in less populated places like Sweden, Norway or US. What is important in times of emergency is not having lots of empty space, but having enough food production capability to feed everyone. There is no reason to believe that this capability will suddenly drop off a cliff.
We all have enough arable land to feed ourselves and farm equipment and road vehicles can be powered by electricity from coal, nuclear and renewables. What we are going to lose is the sort of high incomes that we have been accustomed to in the past. High inflation will degrade earnings and set us back several decades. Eventually rising efficiency and new investment in renewables and nuclear will allow GDP to rebound in most places, although growth rates will probably be lower than we were accustomed to in the era of cheap fossil fuels.
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 3624 Location: over here
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
nocar wrote:
Bas & Steinar, you should note that Norway is not part of the EU and Bas might not be able to just move to Norway. However, being Dutch, Bas can easily move to Denmark, Finland or Sweden, live there for the required time to obtain citizenship and thereafter move to Norway. The Scandinavian countries have had a common labor market (and passport union) for their citizens since the 1950s.
nocar
I never seriously considered Norway because it's easier to go to Sweden for me (or Ireland, which was my preferred destination) but since starting this thread I have concluded that considering everything it's probably the best for me to stay in Holland and I really haven't been considering emigration anymore the last couple of months. Holland is very well equiped to get along with less oil with tightly knit cities with great bicycle and public transport infrastructure and while very densily populated still has the potential to feed it's own with the highly fertile delta land that covers most of it. In case of total collapse, and also a dramatic meltoff of the greenland icecap would make this a very bad place to be, but for now I'll take my chances though. Either way, no reason to halt this discussion. _________________ "The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
DaveMart wrote:
Germany is very dependent on doubtful Russian gas exports.
France also uses a lot of this gas, but could convert to electricity provided by it's nuclear plants...
Without electricity imports (mainly from Germany) France wouldn't have been able to provide the ~88GW peak power demand this winter.
France also depends on electricity imports during hot and dry summers.
> 80% nucleaer power (+ unknown subventions) is nice for cheap base load electricity, but it is one of the worst systems to provide a stable power supply if you have fluctuations in demand. Also hot and dry summers can by a huge problem.
>80% nuclear power does work for France, because it uses the European grid to export cheap baseload energy and import expensive peak load capacity, without the European grid the French grid would collaps.
Some people also believe, that the European grid isn't that far away from collaps during peak load times:
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 294 Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
I agree that Norway would be a good location to emigrate to, although things might not be so great in 4-5 years time, when their oil exports start to dry up.
I think the best place to be in Europe is Austria (having lived there from 1990-2000), with Slovenia as a close 2nd. Both have low population densities, and decent land for farming. Austria is definitely the most green developed country I've been to, and various Austrian companies, and the country as a whole stand to make huge gains if this 'Green Bubble' really gets going. Austrians have the same orderly mentality as Norwegians, and don't tolerate any violations of the law. Most importantly, I could see Austrians coming together as a nation to do what's necessary to mitigate the effects of PO.
The worst countries in central/western Europe IMO: England (overcrowded, with a swelling dangerous, resentful underclass known as 'chavs'), and Belgium (serious underlying tensions between the two ethnic groups, combined with overcrowding)
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
SteinarN wrote:
We have very large fisheries in Norwegian teritorial waters, something like 500kg per person a year.
...
99% of our electric production is from hydro.
...
In addition we have a very large potential for new wind power and quite a bit of new hydro also.
...
The current oil and gas production is roughly 12 times larger than our domestic consumtion. It is howewer declining rapidly with oil declining roughly 7% a year.. But it will take many years still before the production falls below our current consumtion.
Lykkelige jaevler! I don't blame you for staying where you are if you're that well off. You won't even be too exposed to the great southern refugee hordes, geographically speaking. _________________ "A devastating error is to set up a political system based on [individual] desire... the best dictatorship would be one where the government prevents any economical growth."
"Only scarcity and effort make life worth living."
-Pentti Linkola
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
Wikipedia source (so 100% correct !!!!!!!!!!!)
""If small glaciers and polar ice caps on the margins of Greenland and the Antarctic Peninsula melt, the projected rise in sea level will be around 0.5 m. Melting of the Greenland ice sheet would produce 7.2 m of sea-level rise, and melting of the Antarctic ice sheet would produce 61.1 m of sea level"".
My house is 70m above sea level, SO along with global warming, sea level rise etc, welcome to the sunny, balmy, tropical holiday resort of Wigan, Lancashire England. Cant wait. - bring on the dancing girls !!!!!!!!!!!
BTW - Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe - anywhere 61.2m above current sea level.
Gasmon _________________ Oiyl be back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Best place to be/emigrate to within Europe
It should not be forgotten that Austria was the home of the 3rd Reich so their "solutions" may not suit foreigners.
auscanman wrote:
I agree that Norway would be a good location to emigrate to, although things might not be so great in 4-5 years time, when their oil exports start to dry up.
I think the best place to be in Europe is Austria (having lived there from 1990-2000), with Slovenia as a close 2nd. Both have low population densities, and decent land for farming. Austria is definitely the most green developed country I've been to, and various Austrian companies, and the country as a whole stand to make huge gains if this 'Green Bubble' really gets going. Austrians have the same orderly mentality as Norwegians, and don't tolerate any violations of the law. Most importantly, I could see Austrians coming together as a nation to do what's necessary to mitigate the effects of PO.
The worst countries in central/western Europe IMO: England (overcrowded, with a swelling dangerous, resentful underclass known as 'chavs'), and Belgium (serious underlying tensions between the two ethnic groups, combined with overcrowding)
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