Snip:
“South-central Pennsylvania vegetable grower Steve Groff is pioneering what he calls "New Generation Cropping Systems," which emphasize no-till transplanting vegetables with a customized Holland transplanter into cover crops killed with a Buffalo rolling stalk chopper.”
---------
Basically the chopper first pushes over the leguminous cover crop with one roller then a second roller with blades cuts it into small pieces in place. With the addition of manure, little other amendments are needed.
Any thoughts on this? I know small_steps said they do no-till. _________________ ...ladies and gentlemen, we're not here to indulge in fantasy, but in political and economic reality.
--Gekko.
"I hope my own children never have to fight a war,"
--GHW Bush, Naval Aviator
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:31 am Post subject: Works for an individual but not to feed masses
I remember reading an anticle in some magazine years ago that compared a modern mechanized, chemical fertilizer/pesticide corn farm with a corn farm using horse drawn equipment, natural fertilizer and no chemical pesticides. The "modern" farmer produced about 300 bushels per acre while the organic farmer produced about 50 bushels per acre. After considering the costs, both made about the same net profit per acre.
This worked out fine for the organic farmer's pocketbook, but in a world dependent on 300 bushels per acre output, the reduced output per acre will be quite unwelcomed.
It all goes back to what population can be sustained without free oil to give us artifically high levels of food production.
The moral of my post is to avoid being one of those dependent upon that extra 250 bushel per acre output that will disappear without the oil to cause its production. I just wonder how many corn farmers will be able to come up with the horses and horse drawn equipment and be able to adapt to a less oil dependent method of production, and how much of the already depleted soil will be productive using the old methods.
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Works for an individual but not to feed masses
GeeGo wrote:
I remember reading an anticle in some magazine years ago that compared a modern mechanized, chemical fertilizer/pesticide corn farm with a corn farm using horse drawn equipment, natural fertilizer and no chemical pesticides. The "modern" farmer produced about 300 bushels per acre while the organic farmer produced about 50 bushels per acre. After considering the costs, both made about the same net profit per acre.
This worked out fine for the organic farmer's pocketbook, but in a world dependent on 300 bushels per acre output, the reduced output per acre will be quite unwelcomed.
It all goes back to what population can be sustained without free oil to give us artifically high levels of food production.
The moral of my post is to avoid being one of those dependent upon that extra 250 bushel per acre output that will disappear without the oil to cause its production. I just wonder how many corn farmers will be able to come up with the horses and horse drawn equipment and be able to adapt to a less oil dependent method of production, and how much of the already depleted soil will be productive using the old methods.
What you are saying is that modern farms make the same as the farms of the past financially because of the extra cost, but produce more bushels per acre than farmers of the past. Very
As for keeping the soil good, I think today is the optimum time for organic farming. The farm I work at down the road uses no fertilizers other than those the animals produce during the winter, and is still productive enough to run on subsides due to the saved cost. Howver, it would need to get a lot more workers to run without tractors, harvesters, quads and other cheap-oil dependant products. The amount of fuel those guzzle is frightening. _________________ There'll be war, there'll be peace
But one day all things shall cease
All the iron turned to rust
All the proud men turned to dust
So all things time will mend
So this song will end
Joined: Apr 21, 2004 Posts: 508 Location: Republic of Texas
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:44 am Post subject:
Non-organic no till is also a tool to be used to reduce fuel consumption. A lot of farmers in my area use no-till or minimum-till to reduce fuel and labor costs.
No-till farmers use herbicide to control weeds and only have to plow the field once every several years. Yields are only reduced slightly. Net use of oil is much less than conventional till. Not completely oil free but reduction in fuel usage while maintaining high yields is what's important.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 5693 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:48 am Post subject:
What interested me about this article was no herbicides and almost free mulch and nitrogen to boot.
I haven’t been able to locate the chopper he was using however. I plan to contact him and see if he is still using this system and what improvements he might have made. _________________ ...ladies and gentlemen, we're not here to indulge in fantasy, but in political and economic reality.
--Gekko.
"I hope my own children never have to fight a war,"
--GHW Bush, Naval Aviator
Pops,
ATTRA is an organization that is housed in the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. They work closely with International Agricultural Programs on campus (I used to work with IAP) and one of the techniques they teach in IAP programs is no-till farming. I found an article you might be interested in on their website - there's lots of good stuff there. Check it out.
Kathy
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1131 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:54 am Post subject: [Crops] No-till, horse-drawn
{merge similar threads}
I'm becoming convinced that no-till planting is the sustainable agriculture method for raising crops. I'm searching for good horse-drawn techniques and equipment, having found one article in Small Farmer's Journal.
Does anyone have any experiences they can share? It's my understanding that many lessons are being learned through experiementation with many approaches, and favorable techniques are emerging.
I have a magazine with an ad for a horse drawn cart to pull 3pt. implements that I’ll look for. _________________ ...ladies and gentlemen, we're not here to indulge in fantasy, but in political and economic reality.
--Gekko.
"I hope my own children never have to fight a war,"
--GHW Bush, Naval Aviator
The links above are the ones I found most helpful when researching horse-drawn ag methods. I plan on going to one of the courses with Charles Pinney (if he still does them). The Small farmers journal is a fantastic resource, basically every issue deals with Horse drawn farming methods, and there are books on the website. I have one of them myself, and it is excellent. I'm also looking at no till, but I'm not going to be a grain farmer, so most of what I'll be doing is spreading fertiliser (i.e. manure, straw etc) and cutting and baling hay. There are balers out there for horse drawn machinery, they're usually the small "square" balers.
I don't know if you have experience with horses Skyemoor, but I do, so that part of it is not an issue for me. We also have excellent native draught animals in the Irish Draught horse, which also makes the worlds best hunter. Pure bred Irish Draught and half breds (crossed with a TB) are world renowned as the best all round "riding horse", being quality hunters, jumpers, hacks etc, and also the best top level competition horses. Irish Draughts sell for a fortune in the States, I highly recommend them for not only their all round ability, size and strength, but also their excellent temperaments. For cattle work, the excellent American Quarter horse is unbeaten. If you have no experience with horses, get thee to a local stables and see if they'll teach you some skills in return for a few hours work.
If you have any horse related questions I would be more than happy to answer them. It's the one area where I actually know what I'm talking about. _________________ We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Re: [Crops] No-till, horse-drawn
Good for you all.
We have a coupla horses, some old equipment that needs restoring.
But golly, until gas for the tractor gets too expensive, the horses remain lawn ornaments.
We know firsthand the time and patience required to work with horses. I suppose once you "get it down," it's second nature like any other skill, but we can't seem find the time to train the horses (and ourselves) for useful work around the farm.
I like the idea of no-till planting of field crops. Much less fuel is used due to fewer passes through the field; up to eight or nine passes for corn, less disruption of the good things in the soil, no stirring up new weed seeds in the attempt to get rid of existing weeds, etc.
The biggest problem with no-till as it is usually practiced is the use of chemical herbicides. Even if you don’t care about whether they damage the environment or not they may become as prohibitively expensive as fuel.
This is basically what I did on my raised beds and what I had intended to do in my little field corn patch - but it didn’t get done.
I can see where this could be adapted to any scale and power source, human to humongous. One person with a broadcaster could plant the cover in the fall; maybe two could push/pull a modified lawn roller in the spring and hand planters to plant the corn, beans or whatever.
I was looking for a picture of a corn planter and found this page showing both a planter and broadcaster but not being used together! Funny how things old could be new again.
I’m no horseman but I’d think even a smaller horse could handle a roller and single-row no-till planter combination. _________________ ...ladies and gentlemen, we're not here to indulge in fantasy, but in political and economic reality.
--Gekko.
"I hope my own children never have to fight a war,"
--GHW Bush, Naval Aviator
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 9354 Location: Village of Idiots
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: Re: [Crops] No-till, horse-drawn
Looks like a good system to me, similar to Fukuoka grain growing that might be more suitable for less optimum climates than Fukuoka worked with in Japan. Definitely worth a try for people who want to grow field crops and have access to horsedrawn equipment. Running a horsedrawn mower or roller over the field seems easier than scything the field down by hand, if you like horses! _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 5693 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: [Crops] No-till, horse-drawn
Thanks for finding that Sky, I hadn’t seen later results - it is encouraging to see folks actually trying new stuff.
It was almost amusing the guy that said he only got 90bu/ac of corn!
I wonder how much he saved on fuel and roundup-ready seed and chemicals?
One fella got 146bu/ac with no herbicide and I suppose straight seed (not RoundUp Ready) – Crap, that’s nice! _________________ ...ladies and gentlemen, we're not here to indulge in fantasy, but in political and economic reality.
--Gekko.
"I hope my own children never have to fight a war,"
--GHW Bush, Naval Aviator
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
