[Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)

Specop_007 · Expert Joined: Aug 12, 2004 Posts: 6237

I agree bullet drop is dependent upon load. However, some calibers naturally outperform others. For example, I think about the worst load in .308 will blow the door soff the best load a 30-30 has to offer.
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ORCA

I understand your example completely. The venerable 30-30win has close to the same ballistics as the 7.62X39, or "AK" round.

Recently, however, ammo manufacturers have found a means to shoot spitzer-type bullets in the 30-30. That was impossible before due to the point of the bullet causing a detonation in the tubular magazine. The old round nose bullets did what they could, but the new offering will certainly present better performance, don't ya think? FWIW
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Specop_007 · Expert Joined: Aug 12, 2004 Posts: 6237

ORCA

You're right. Wouldn't be my choice, either. I was just throwing in info of late regarding some moderat performance increase in a venerable calibure.

It imagine the term "long range" means different things to different people depending upon what they are used to.

With me, 500 yds are doable, just not consistantly with anything I currently own. My bolt-actions (.243 and .270) are each contained in featherweight rifles ideal for all-day carry in the mountainous terrian here where I live. Most shots are less than 100 yds, sometimes twice that.

The will, however, keep undesireables at a distance, or, they will allow me to pick out a small part of a target (like an eye or cheek) trying to hide themselves at closer distances.
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lentilsmine · Tar Sands Joined: Jul 09, 2008 Posts: 20

joelcolorado · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 683

I got a 357 mag revolver due to the fact that my index finger is bum and sticks up and gets whacked by the recoil on the auto.

And for most ppl a revolver is foolproof. You pull the trigger and it goes off. No safety, no cleaning, etc. The main reason I got it was for bears and cougars when I bow hunt and walk in to my stands in the dark.

I know in an emergency, I pull the trigger and bang. I dont shoot a lot so I think that is why a revolver is best for most ppl who dont.

What do you think. Otherwise the glock looks so cool.

lentilsmine · Tar Sands Joined: Jul 09, 2008 Posts: 20

ORCA

Lintilsmine, welcome. I'm fairly new myself.

Your pictures are very informative. I don't own a Bersa, but I have heard good reports on them, and some complaints regarding size/wt. for a .380.

The Glock is a great piece. I currently own a G23 after having owned both a G17 and a G19 in the past.

I must admit, I seldom carry the 23 anymore. I have small hands, too, and the thickness of the slide and high-capacity mag are not that comfortable for me in the hand or concealed. It does, however, reside in my nightstand drawer for quick access.

For a carry piece I reach for either a Kahr .40 or the dimunitive Kel-Tec P3AT. Which one I choose often depends on how I'm dressed and where I'll be going. I must admit, I have gravitated much more to the P3AT simply because it is almost effortless to carry it considering it's small size and light wt.

All of these "little" pistols like the Kel-Tec can be contankerous like you said. Most take some tinkering and/or a proven break-in period before they can be depended upon to work 100%, and you should not carry anything that you do not have full confidense in.

Should society de-volve to the point we must take our personal defense to a higher level, I believe we will rely on concealed handguns for daily carry. The long-guns will stay home at the ready, but being inconspicuous while armed and out and about will become the daily routine for many of us. Regardless of type, style, or calibur, find one (two/three is better) that fits you well and that you are confident in using after much practise.

Regards
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Jotapay · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 21, 2008 Posts: 391

Regarding this discussion of pistol choice, if my life depended on it, there is no way I would depend on a Bersa, Kel-Tech, Kahr, or Eastern Block Makarov-derivative (like the Polish P64 that has been imported recently).

I would buy a SigSauer, HK, CZ or Glock semi-auto; or a Ruger or Smith and Wesson revolver. These are very well-made pistols with excellent machining. They are the only brands I would trust with my life.

There are other good pistol brands like Kimber, FN/Browning and Springfield Armory, but I prefer these others above as they are the best made. Cheap guns usually are more unreliable and made from cheap parts. There are some exceptions for some surplus firearms, but not many.

ORCA

Jotapay, that's certainly your choice and I see no disadvantage to is other than maybe price. Proceed however makes you feel confident. They are all great pistols that got your thumbs up.

If you cruise through some of the gun forums once in awhile you are sure to read negative comments on just about anything. Personally, I've read negative comments on Glock. I've read them on Kimber. It all depends upin who feel they didn't get what they paid for, and frankly, if I had paid the tariff for a Kimber I'd expect it to be damn perfect!

Both the Kahr and the Kel-Tec came from the world of high-tech manufactoring and they did have some bugs to work out early on. Its not particularily that way now, and I have never experienced a FTF with either pistol - even out the box - with various ammo. That certainly doesn't mean you wouldn't. I'm carrying the Kel-Tec as I type this, and I have no doubt that if I pulled the trigger it would go 'BOOM'.

Don't be so quick to write that little Markarov, either. Yes it was made in the former Soviet Bloc, but their stuff worked. Just look at the AK family of weapons. I've read a lot of praise for that piece (although I don't own one) and it looks like a good inexpensive candidate for a "bug-out-bag" or hidden somewhere.
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Jotapay · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 21, 2008 Posts: 391

Yep, it all comes down to preference as these are all just tools. I agree that price is an issue, but it's your life we're talking about here. All those models I listed can be had for about $400-500 used if you look around. Aim Surplus was just selling German Polizei trade-ins Sig P225s for about $260 last month.

I owned a Russian Makarov a few years ago. The trigger pull was extremely heavy and clunky, the safety was very stiff and the safety also doubles as a decocking mechanism, which is a very unnerving way to decock your pistol if you aren't used to it. It also only shoots the 9x18 round.

I actually own four AKMs at the moment. Two are Bulgarian-made (Arsenal Bulgaria) and two are Russian-made (Saiga conversions). They are not cheaply made by any means. They are incredibly durable and reliable. I prefer them over AR-15s as they do not need to be babied to go bang reliably.

ORCA

At one time I had both a Valmet 76 and an Israli Galil in 5.56. I never shot the Galil. Only had it a short time before trading it. I've been kicking myself ever since! I had a HK91 w/collaphable stock, too. If I had only been able to look into the crystal ball! They are history now, however.
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lentilsmine · Tar Sands Joined: Jul 09, 2008 Posts: 20

I'm gonna add one more comment about the Bersa Thunder 380, seeing as I just stripped mine to clean and relube it before one more test at the range to see if it's really defective and in need of service.

Compared to the Glock, the finish quality of the edges on both the steel and plastic parts of the Bersa is just not as good. There are rough edges and the milling is rough.

Once again, everything I've read about Bersa suggests they do make quality products with the occasional lemon, but you must keep in mind that you ARE buying a pistol for $250 and they WILL have to cut corners to sell it that cheaply. It's just that in all my research the Bersa seems to be thought by many to be far and away the best pistol at that price point.

I can vouch that mine is solidly constructed and very accurate, it just fails to feed. I've also been told by a couple people that a Bersa has a 1-200 round break in period, which I strongly suspect has to do with the roughness of the milling on the moving parts.
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