Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: Contoversial Response
All this talk of conservation and moral high ground grabbing has got me thinking.
1. The 'higher' the peak, the steaper the decline.
2. It seems impossible to get this idea through to the masses in the absence of a crisis.
so... just imagine if a group of people geared themself up to be energy self sufficient, but at the same time, ramped up their energy usage to extrodinarily large levels. These people would be responsible for bringing the peak forward (to a presumably lower level. and if not technically lower, the extra height would be artificial anyway), hence softening the decline. Also, these people would represent 'surplus capacity' for efficiency gains.
This could be construed as the ethical response to peak oil awareness.
If you are already conserving as much as you can now, then how do you plan on helping (ie. conserving) in times of crisis.
Just a non-conventional thought to keep minds open.
Joined: Apr 10, 2004 Posts: 143 Location: Tulsa OK
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 4:13 am Post subject: Reply to leaf
Leaf said:
“I guess I am more against this war because I was pesonnally called up as a US Army Reservist! I did not want to fight for this nation not worth defending! Now I am 100% out of the military for good!”
and:
“if I was not called up I would probally in more favor of it. Anyway it buys me time to get my p's & Q's in order and get out of Dodge.”
It seems striking to me that I read your words on what is in the U.S. Memorial Day. You say you are out of the Military 100% for good. I imagine all your buddies really miss you too. You said you want to "get out of Dodge". Might I suggest France? You should do well there with the correct wardrobe.
Apropos of nothing I once heard that the English were called Redcoats because they wore red jackets. If they were wounded in battle the blood didn’t show. The French on the other hand wore white shirts and brown pants. If they were in a battle the shirts made nice flags of surrender and the pants didn’t show excrement stains.
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 1969 Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Reply to leaf
Onyered wrote:
The French on the other hand wore white shirts and brown pants. If they were in a battle the shirts made nice flags of surrender and the pants didn’t show excrement stains.
LOL! A french knock-knock joke:
Person 1: Knock-knock.
Person 2: Who's there?
Person 1: I give up.
Person 2: Come on in. _________________ Here Lies the United States Of America.
Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 984 Location: Tulsa, Ok
Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 8:07 pm Post subject: LOL
LOL!!!! :D :D
Onyered has the French down!
Quote:
“I guess I am more against this war because I was pesonnally called up as a US Army Reservist! I did not want to fight for this nation not worth defending! Now I am 100% out of the military for good!”
Many French soliders died in the Revolutionary War fighting for our freedoms, fellas.
Had it not been for the French,those of us in the States might be living in a oppressive regime run by people who were put in positions of leadership solely because of the family they were born in.
I googled "France and American Revolution" and this came up:
It is a list of French soldiers who fought with the colonists. Given it is memorial day, and given the fact they were instrumental in the establishment of this country, perhaps we should remember their sacrifices too.
Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 984 Location: Tulsa, Ok
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:18 am Post subject: Ok
SpoilSport!
Ok Ok It's kinda fun to jump on the band wagon and cut them down a little. That was about the same number of French men who fought for us in the civil war as the number of our troops who were in the prison in Iraq and going a little over board.
Link
No one is talking about pulling out of Iraq, except Ralph Nader. In fact, Bush seems to have swiped his new Iraq policy from John Kerry. (Try to "internationalize" the occupation, etc.)
That said, I think Iraq is officially a quagmire. Can't stay, can't leave.
We can't win in Iraq, any more than we could win Vietnam, the Russians could win in Afghanistan, or the Israelis could win in Lebanon. It may take us 20 years to realize it, but we can't win. According to the CIA, in the 20th century, every nationalist insurgency has ultimately succeeded in kicking out foreign occupiers. Not some. Not most. Every single one.
OTOH, if we pull out, we'll look like weak fools, and it will likely leave terrorists in charge of Iraq. They weren't there before, but they certainly are now.
As for oil...we pulled our bases out of Saudi Arabia, with the idea that we'll have massive U.S. military bases in Iraq instead. I don't think that's going to happen. So we've lost our strategic foothold in the Middle East.
Joined: May 21, 2004 Posts: 198 Location: East Coast USA
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:26 am Post subject:
I think the way to handle Iraq is to ask the Arab League to take over and build a new government. Or possibly the UN. Neither will happen, of course, since the reason the US went in in the first place was to control the oil, and this goal still holds. _________________ www.searchingforthetruth.com
The truth that is suppressed by friends is the readiest weapon of the enemy.
- Robert Louis Stevenson
Interesting idea, asking the Arab League. Though I wonder if they're up to it. They tend to be more talk than action. Kind of like the U.N. I'm not a U.N. basher, mind, but I seriously doubt if they are willing or capable of handling Iraq.
Quote:
Neither will happen, of course, since the reason the US went in in the first place was to control the oil, and this goal still holds.
I wonder. I suspect you are right. Every indication is the Bush and Cheney are seriously concerned about peak oil. But...that wasn't the reason we were given for going in. We were told it was because Saddam was going to give WMD to terrorists, then we were told it was to "liberate" the Iraqi people. How much longer will the voters put up with the cost in blood and treasure, now that WMD aren't a threat, and the liberatees don't seem very grateful?
Perhaps they'll actually admit it's about oil, and explain why it's so critical?
Joined: May 21, 2004 Posts: 198 Location: East Coast USA
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:17 am Post subject:
Leanan wrote:
But...that wasn't the reason we were given for going in. We were told it was because Saddam was going to give WMD to terrorists, then we were told it was to "liberate" the Iraqi people.
I never thought I'd see a President who lied more than Clinton, but I was wrong.
Quote:
How much longer will the voters put up with the cost in blood and treasure, now that WMD aren't a threat, and the liberatees don't seem very grateful?
The oleo-oligarchs won't have to worry about that until at least 2008, because it's been neatly arranged that the voters won't have a chance to express their will as far as Iraq is concerned. Kerry is already talking about expanding the military.
Quote:
Perhaps they'll actually admit it's about oil, and explain why it's so critical?
That will become an option only after the voters have felt enough pain so that they're worried enough to abandon principle for naked self interest. Sometimes I wonder whether the abuse photographs, etc. were intended to provoke a full blown interruption in the oil supply to get the public on edge (and make Bush's Texas oil buddies enough to finance his reelection). _________________ www.searchingforthetruth.com
The truth that is suppressed by friends is the readiest weapon of the enemy.
- Robert Louis Stevenson
Joined: Apr 10, 2004 Posts: 143 Location: Tulsa OK
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject:
More men were killed in rehearsals for D-Day than have been killed in Iraq. If we had had the "We can't win, it's a quagmire" mentality then we might all be speaking German. 2 days after D-Day it was touch and go if we were going to be able to hang on. If the present day media was reporting the news we would have pulled out.
Militarily we won the Vietnam war. Politically we gave it away because protestors like John Kerry undermined the will to see it through. In 1968 the Tet offensive was supposed to be a popular uprising of the people of the south against their “oppressors”. Nothing like that occurred, the People of South Vietnam resisted. This was when Walter Cronkite made his infamous decree that the war was no longer winnable. In fact the local insurgents who rose up (the Viet Cong) were destroyed and from that time on “ local insurgents” were actually NVA. Because of Pres. Johnson's lack of moral fiber there was no resolve. He didn’t know what to do and wouldn’t let the military do what needed to be done.
I agree that we can make Iraq into another Vietnam. If we lack the resolve to see it through we can pull out and let the situation go totally to hell. But the theory being passed around here is that we can’t win. That is not true.
Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 984 Location: Tulsa, Ok
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:14 am Post subject: hmm
Thank you for serving. I just don't like the comment that America isn't worth fighting for. I did not join or serve. I regeistered for the draft but wasn't called up. I would have served if called.
Let me get this straight. It's not worth fighting for or you are unhappy with the state of politics or the economy or another aspect..
In America you can make statements such as you did. As long as you protest peacefully you can disagree with the government and have the chance to make it change.
I strongly urge you to peaceably fight to change what you don't like not to turn your back on her.
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:18 am Post subject: Leadership
TheSupplyGuy wrote:
It seems really odd that for the next four years that may be the most important 4 in human history, we have some of the worst leadership choices ever.
Boy ain't that da truth.
You might as well throw in the last 12 years too. In a few years, we are going to regret having squandered our last chance to head off a crisis during the roaring 90s.
Clinton has to be one of the luckiest guys alive - he comes in just after the Bush recession has turned around, presides over the internet bubble, then blows town before the SHTF on the stock market, terrorism, peak oil, etc. Hey, can we get him back? We could use some good luck about now!
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A french knock-knock joke:
:D :D 
