Should I show my nice parents End of Suburbia over Xmas?

oowolf

Depends on how "aware" you consider them to be. Most have to be pushed into consciousness of the supreme importance of respecting the entire Earth. You might try giving them a copy of Clive Ponting's "Green History of the World".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0140176608/qid=1135293537/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-7381545-9533457?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
It's an excellent introduction to the dangers of destroying the environment. It goes way beyond PO. PO is not really the problem, but if you can't grasp the implications of PO, you're not likely to get SCARED enough to learn more.

crapattack

Thought I would give you all an update on what happened over Xmas with the folks.

We couldn't decide whether to show them End of Suburbia, so in the end we opted for introducing the topic in a very "off hand" way. I pulled my my new copy of "Power Down" by Richard Heinberg from under the tree that we had planted there hoping that this would start a discussion. Mom quickly grabbed the book and was scanning it with mild curiosity and a worried frown. I was prepping myself for a discussion when Dad suddenly piped up "Running out of Oil eh? Didn't you hear? They've just "proven" that it's an unlimited supply. We can't run out because it is just created in the ground. The whole thing of running out is just a scam by the oil companys". I was so shocked to hear the aboiotic oil argument coming out of his mouth I mumbled something like, "that's not true Dad", but let the whole thing drop. There was no use getting into an argument with him and trying to prove him wrong as he would just get defensive and dig in. But, we were quite surprised to say the least. He listens to a lot of 'talk radio' and must have picked up the concept from somewhere, so now our work is really cut-out for us because he's unlikely to change his mind no matter what 'evidence' I put in front of him. The only thing we can hope for is he'll hear some other opinions on the same shows to change his mind back to something more reasonable. Showing him the EofS would really be a mistake since he's attached himself to this idea.

Meanwhile, we did need to talk to them about our living arrangement plans. So we had a talk and told them we are thinking about moving back and want to get a house with some land and a great big garden (we didn't say what for), and want them to come and live with us after they sell the house. They were thrilled. I think it worked out for the better this way, and was more positive than scarring them half to death with the movie. Sometime we would like to show it to them, but maybe not until we're settled in the new situation and maybe by then they will have heard somethings on their own.

Anyone who has any advice on how to talk someone out of abiotic oil is welcome to pitch in, I'm a bit bemused he's cottoned on to this nutty idea.
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seldom_seen · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 1996

Haha, don't mean to laugh, but that's right out of a movie with Ben Stiller or something. Sorry to hear the old man has the abiotic bug, not sure how you're going to shake that.

You can always explain that the United States peaked in the early 1970s, which is a fact. If oil is abiotic, it surely isn't here in the states where we are hopelessly dependent on oil exporting countries.

Guest

Hi CA,
Sounds like you handled things about as well as they could be handled. I have heard that 'a man convienced against his will is of the same opinion still.'

About abiotic oil - if it is is being produced, the rate of accumulation is pretty slow compared to the rate that we are extracting it. My only observation. I would think that if it were being produced as fast as we are using it then the first twenty or fifty feet of the oceans would be covered with oil by now.

Best of luck. Going the direction that you are going in terms of a little land, having them live with you etc. will let you all draw together as a family. It might be a year or two, but pretty soon they will have a NOVA (or similar) exposee on Peak Oil, and probably interview Hubbert and Colins and others that have pretty unassailable credentials, and then a lot of people will start talking about it and it will become generally understood.

We gave our kids windup flashlights that also charge a Nokia cell phone, little sprouting chambers for making alfalfa sprouts (with some starter seeds) and three month dry storage food supplys. I was expecting a chorus of groans, but they all said they were glad to get them, and I think that they weren't just being polite. We all camp in the summer, so they all have some kind of camp stove, a propane lantern - more emergency stuff than long term stuff.

Kod · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 11, 2005 Posts: 49 Location: Calgary

I showed The End of Suburbia to my parents tonight. They're both in their lower 50's.

I've been trying to slowly introduce them to peak oil over the last several months. I bring up energy issues in casual discussion, and often wonder out loud, "what happens when gas gets even more expensive?" I've also started looking into investing in energy and metals, which has really got my parents interested in oil. I thought that with all this preparation, their minds would be open to accept the full reality of peak oil. It was time to show them The End of Suburbia.

Well, it was mostly a failure. My dad believes that the statistics must have been fudged in order to suit the director's bias. I told him that I've studied the statistics and know that they are solid. He didn't believe me, and also offered the "somebody will invent some brilliant solution" argument. There isn't much I can say to that, other than to appeal to his inner boy scout by suggesting he prepare for the worst. He just doesn't want to hear of it.

My mom I have hopes for. She appeared silent and contemplative, and her only words after the movie were, "I guess I should learn how to can foods again."

My parents are healthy people and have a good 30 or 40 years of life ahead of them. I want them to be able to enjoy their retirement, but I don't know how it will be possible if they don't plan properly. It's frustrating, partly because I have to worry about their future, but mostly because I can't stand having my loved ones blatantly disregard something I've invested so much time and effort into for their sake.

Doly · Expert Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 4035

AmericanEmpire · Heavy Crude Joined: Jul 14, 2005 Posts: 497

crapattack

Well I thought I should give everyone an update so far. I was on the west coast for a week and thought this would be a good time to start to introduce the parents to the topic... it sort of worked...

I didn't end up showing them EofS. I think we're taking the 'easing in' approach. Dad surprised me a great deal and seemed to totally agree with it, and didn't once offer up any abiotic oil nonsense. Now I don't know if that's good or bad, I got the feeling he was just being polite. Mom listened but seemed ready to spout off the "they'll think of something" response when the ferry came and it was time to part. We intentionally kept it until the last part of our trip, not just so we didn't spoil the fun, but to just intro them in small amounts. Next time she'll have a bunch of questions. We see them next week so we'll bring it up again.

As we want them to buy land and live with us we figure we'll have to take it slowly. It'll be such a big change for them, as it is for us too, it's important we all take our time to make the right choices. As time goes by I've become more considered and realise I can make some plans without them if they choose to do something else, and that is fine with me. I see this is a good thing as I don't think it's wise to operate from a sense of panic. Anyhow, next week I will show them EofS and then we'll see where the conversation goes.
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timofsuburbia · Coal Joined: Feb 24, 2006 Posts: 1

I showed the End of Suburbia to my parents just before Thanksgiving. It was a huge success. My father is very astute in world affairs and history so this kicked off a 2-3 hour discussion in regard to peak oil, dollar hegemony, American Empire, the history of Western influence in the Middle East dating back to the Ottoman Empire.

I was thrilled.

Now I've got my mom stocking up for Bird Flu.

pedalling_faster · Intermediate Crude Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 849

i tried something similar ... i gave my mom a print-out of a news article about energy shortages, a 5 pager, while she was reading the newspaper, one day while i was staying there.

not interested.

abiotic oil is actually not "vaporware" - if you put the right materials and bake them the right way, you can make oil abiotically in the lab. yes, some of the known oil reservoirs may be abiotic or partially abiotic in origin.

a moot point though.

you're lucky to have a chance to talk with your father about it. i think my father would have found it fascinating.

how does the end of suburbia treat the subject of food riots ? anybody could describe that part of the movie in greater detail ?

crapattack

Latest update:

Well we finally showed them the movie. It went over amazingly well! They were very chatty and almost happy about it, saying they'd known about this and that was why they never bought a clothes dryer Shocked

. Everything was going swimmingly until we said that we are actually changing our plans about life based on this. Instead of finishing my PhD, which I can see no point doing now, the idea is to move from the city, buy land and get things going while we have the time. This was met with much more uncomfortableness. Mom didn't like the idea of me "giving up on life" and couldn't accept that the timelines are so short. She did engage in a bit of "they'll think of something" talk. Dad was much more realistic in that he agreed it was sad but there wouldn't really be any need in the future for PhD's in my speciality - far better to acquire survival skills.

I'm glad they've seen it but it feels a bit anti-climactic now. We still have a lot of thinking to do as a family, but they did say they would be willing to move to the place we thought was best.
_________________
"Ninety percent of everything is crap."
-Theodore Sturgeon

Stay low and run in a random pattern.

List of Civilian Nuclear Accidents