The life of an average Roman in the 470's

Atlantean_Relic

Thinking about the possible fall of America got me thinking about them. Were they as unaware as us? How soon before the USA starts telling our allies to fend for themselves

JayBee

Whenever I compare the West with Rome I am always laughed at by those who don't believe in peak oil or that a transition to something other than oil will be easy. I'm sure a few guffaws are coming on this forum too.

I can see comparisons everywhere. I'm sure the people of Rome had every confidence in their armies, superior technology and the fact that they had been around for a long time so why shouldn't they remain for many more centuries to come.

The "barbarians" can't wait to pick over our remains.
_________________
The Good Life - http://sustainable-life.co.uk/blog/

holmes · Fission Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 2384

a nice comparison however it is only a comparison. Our scale is about 1000 times larger and ecological footprint 100000 times larger. there was 1 million in the roman urban growth boundary. How many of us by the time she blows out? LOL. we are rome on crack, crystal meth, heroin, speed, coke, reds, blues, oil, steel, plastic, anything else i left out? Our fall will make romes fall look like a night out on the town. resources stripped to the bone brother. And take a look at that european landscape. a bit denuded would u say. thats years of civilizations. tradgedy of the commons.

mididoctors

the collapse of roman society was a economic thing in effect (thou the reasons still seem complex to untangle)

basically plumbing and a lot of trade disappeared..

there was a period in the UK of a few decades that were 'fluid" but social order of some sort emerged..

the abandonment of urban areas was kind of spooky but the ruins were repopulated when social groupings grew large enough to re-man the walls

after that your back to money and all that...

boris
london

Wrencher

Sadly, it might well be true that the 'bigger they are, the harder they fall' . We really are not prepared at all as a nation physically, emotionally and possibly the worst of all is educationally. We have genererations of people that don't know how to raise a carrot, and who have never thought that food doesn't come from a store. Very few have tanned a hide, cleaned a fish, made a brick or pot, worked or cast metal on a forge or foundry, or sawed a tree into lumber.

A lot of interest will probably be generated in these and other skills when the first oil shocks rumble through our economy. I guess to be called a 'Conucopian' is somewhat of a perjorative term, and I don't know that I fill the definition in fact. Maybe a glass-half-full type outlook is more accurate. I do believe that people are tougher than we generally give them credit for, and that it is hard to see into the future with any great accuracy.

My ancestors were Germans that moved to Russia in the late 1700's and early 1800's at the invitation of Catherine the Great. She had conducted a successful war and largely defeated the Ottoman Empire in the southern part of Russia. So it was mostly empty. Being Queen that used to be a German Princess she invited thousands and maybe tens of thousands of Germans to make their home in Russia. Most were artisans, and came with the promise of homes and villages. My family was taken out onto the steppe and dumped off in the grassland in the last part of summer. There were no houses, and only a little lumber was given to them. Winter was going to be on them before they knew it, and there were no stores, only a fitfully flowing stream, a few animals and not enough supplies and endless grass. They had a plow and a team of oxen and proceeded to build cold and drafty sod houses. The first winter was very hard, and the old and young died in disproportionate number. Most did live, and all worked. They improved their homes, planted gardens, hatched eggs and gradually prospered.

So it might be with us as well, but even in a oil depleated world we have much more than they had, and much more knowledge about many more things - a huge knowledge base - just not much about the practical. I imagine that suburbia will change a lot, but look at the resources that are all ready in place - the piping, wiring, concrete, brick, wood and glass that are all ready there. Many houses are poorly designed, and might be cold, but still it is amazing what we have. So many houses - think of all that grass spaded up and planned with peas, beans, corn, carrots, tomatoes and sweetcorn. It won't happen overnight, but it is likely to happen eventurally.
_________________
All the best,

Wrencher

***********
Seize the Day - It is all that we have.

Battle_Scarred_Galactico · Intermediate Crude Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 970

The Romans were 0% reliant of fossil fuels, to our 100%.

It is like comparing a horse to an F1 car.
_________________
"One minute I held the key, next the walls were closed on me, and I discovered that my castle stands upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand."

TorrKing

FairMaiden

Torjus - obviously you have never been to Canada!

Wrencher - thanks for posting that insight to your ancestry. I think its important to remember that ppl have an amazing capacity to survive.

When I think of Roman in the 470's...I see a senate full of old, white robed men arguing about politics. Some are worried and some are too egotistical to believe anything could happen to the Great Rome. While the ppl are confused and don't know what to think...

JayBee

gnm

I don't think he's been to New Mexico either. There are places here where I can drive 40 miles and see nobody. Not even a house.

-G Very Happy

_________________
All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up!

TorrKing

Canada is big and much empty space. Not very high potential for food production in much of it though.

The ever increasing hedonism in the Roman Empire sparked a wave of contra-reactions in the end. Many people started seeking a meaning outside the materialistic and this was probably the time when the conservative type of christianity developed. Endulging oneself became a sin. Interestingly this stage came after a period when eastern type religions were popular (self, body and so on).

In my opinion it is the same that we see today in America (in particular). An increasing conservatism and a very fundamentalistic view on religion is replacing a period of religous nomadism. This is to me a sign of that the end of our civilisation is near.

Torjus Gaaren

FairMaiden

Actually the Roman Senate survived the fall of the empire...but granted, they lost most of their governing power in the later years and were just and "old boys" network of over 1000 aristocrats. What I was saying is that I can see all these "senators" sitting around drinking wine and debating much the same way we are here - with much more emotion and much less logic Wink

FairMaiden

Torjus - have you ever been to Canada? Where I live, we have the most fertile land in North America. Granted, the bloody gov't just granted zoning rights to a large chunk of it for development...but we have PLENTY of food production here. There are wild berries growing on every block in the city. There are fruit trees in all the backyards in the suburbs. We grow grains, corn, berries, vegetables...everything here. We have lots of coast here (I think its second in the world) so that means mild climate. The vastness of lakes, streams, etc have produced natural irrigation. The bears that fish and leave the carasses spread over the land are actually fertilizing our land. The fires bring much needed nitrogen. Luckily, we haven't totally screwed up our eco-system here - YET.

AmericanEmpire · Heavy Crude Joined: Jul 14, 2005 Posts: 497

TorrKing