Halloween in Europe?

Daculling · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 1357

Seems some Europeans are not too happy about Halloween.

Halloween Backlash

So Halloween started in Europe thousands of years ago and until recently was only carried on by the Americans. Are the people opposing the practice in the artical just a couple of blowhards or is it a commonly held opinion that it is an American cultural event that should stay in America?

Just an American want'n to know, can't really tell from the artical.

One more thing... I can't figure out if Guy Faux is the hero or the villian, or both.
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Aaron · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

UIUCstudent01 · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 10, 2005 Posts: 894

lateStarter · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

Whatever happened in Europe thousands of years ago has nothing to do with the crass commercialism associated with it today, primarily in America. It is a totally manufactured event (just like Christmas) that uses all the marketing tools available to get people to part with their hard-earned dollars, all in the name of 'fun'.

I know here in Poland, there have been several attempts to introduce the American concept (costumes/parties) but it got nowhere. It is apparently a very solemn time (also very profitable in the selling of flowers and candles at the cemeteries) and most older people spend the time visting the cemeteries paying their respects to friends and relatives.

I have no doubt though that the younger people would much prefer costume parties and that eventually the western marketing machine would prove successful if we lasted that long. I'm pretty sure though that in the very near future, these type of mass-marketed, artificial, frivolities will entirely disappear (along with a whole lot of other crap!!!).

rogerhb · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

Halloween was a pagan festival, so it is appropriate that it's most ardent followers are those committed Christians the USA.

As a kid I only remember Halloween from references from Peanuts, other than that it's a big non-event.

Teaching kids trick-or-treat is an appropriate introduction to American capitalism and would prepare anyone to become a CEO of a corporation.

Guido Fawkes was part of a catholic conspiracy to commit regicide by blowing up King James I as he opened a session at the houses of parliament. He was tortured, hanged, drawn and quartered for his efforts.

He is the central villain of the ritual of Nov 5th celebrations, ironically, the result of the civil war 40 years later resulted in the execution of his son, Charles I.

James was originally the King of Scotland, but England invited him to become King of England because we ran out of heirs.
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jaakkeli · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

As I understand it, Halloween happens in early November. Does it involve a lot of drinking?

If not, it has no chance whatsoever in Finland.

Early November: the time when the sun doesn't rise until you're at work and sets before you come back home from work and the time when it's mostly cold, but keeps rising above freezing, so the snow keeps getting turned into disgusting slosh (except when it freezes again quickly and the streets turn deadly) and there is no permanent snow to brighten up the darkness. We actually had *the best* autumn weather in a lifetime this year, but that's over now, this week it has been snowing again even in the south. Snowing wouldn't be bad, but it'll get warmer soon, and then colder again. And again.

So, don't bother trying to export a celebration that isn't about heavy drinking. Here, only Christian nutties could celebrate anything without drinking this time of the year and they won't like Halloween at all.

(BTW Finns have never celebrated Halloween. Whoever's pagan custom it was, it wasn't ours.)

rogerhb · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

elroy · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

In the Netherlands we have a festivity called Sint Maarten's day. It's the 11th of November, kids go door to door in the evening with a (home made) lantern, they sing a song and get some candy. Similar to Halloween, yet different. The powers that be have been trying to establish a Halloween tradition here the last few years, for example the local supermarket started selling pumpkins, but it hasn't picked up much really. As far as I know, it's generally seen as an american commercial event.
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Barbara · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

Suddenly, all the children here know about Halloween. I don't know what's happened. Five years ago nobody knew about it but the readers of Peanuts. Then McDonalds and Blockbuster began to advertise Halloween and now kids at school are busy preparing.
My kid asked me while panting ghosts on a paper "Mom, what's Halloween?" Shocked

I answered "Dunno. American stuff."
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katkinkate · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

Ok, can't resist ...(puts on my lecturer's hat)

Halloween (Oct 31): shortened form of "All Hallows Evening" the night before All Saints Day (Nov 1). A day in the long list of the Catholic church's 'saints days' ..and a day for all the saints that don't have a day especially named for them.

But the Catholics didn't invent the celebration. It is one of the pagan holy days that they 'assimilated' or 'christianised' in order to make it easy to take over religious authority from the dominant pagan culture in the early days of first millenial Europe.

Originally it was called Samain. It was a harvest celebration and the official end of the year, ie. Nov 1 was the New Years Day, or the closest of the full moon to it (they used a calender based on lunar months). It as also one night of the year when it was believed the veil between the worlds was weakest and it was said the dead were known to walk the earth.

That's where the lights in vegetables and the costumes come from. To give light to the people so they weren't so afraid of the dark and the costumes to confuse any ghosts that may be looking for someone to do something nasty, sort of like camoflage.

It was also the night that people remembered and celebrated those who had died.

I'm not sure of the origins of the 'trick or treat' thing. It might be an American addition. However I do know that it wasn't celebrated as commercially originally and nowhere else but America does so today.

There's been a push to get it into Australia over the recent decades. Every year a few optomistic teans will band together and go 'trick or treating' the couple of times they've knocked on my door I just tell them I'm not American and don't keep Halloween.
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Starvid · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

Halloween is good. Anything that brings more parties is good! Very Happy

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Andrew_S · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jan 09, 2005 Posts: 683

I don't mind halloween parties but you can keep that trick
or treat stuff.

In Finland we have Easter witches who bless your house
in exchange for candy.

Daculling · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 1357

sameu · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

halloween sucks big time

really

it suck

big

time

And I'll never participate in any of the fake crap related to halloween

nero · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Halloween in Europe?

The trick or treating has only been passified in the past 30 years or so. Before that it really was an issue of the townsfolk paying off the ragamuffins to not egg their house or molest ther cows.

Now that it is sanitized it has become just another non-religious holiday that it is safe to use in marketing (ie. unlikely to offend anybody in particular). I disagree with exporting holidays though, each country or region should have their own festivals and traditions or else the world will become a dull place.

Any interesting traditions out there you would like to share?

My favorite is the new tradition of a Polar Bear Swim on New Years.
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