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americandream
Light Sweet Crude
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 1914
Location: kiwibush
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 Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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More right wing propaganda.
My Venezuelan chat friend tells me that the very opposite is taking place
In fact on Joe Baegent, the talk is that an increasing number of Americans are moving to Latin Countries such as Belize.
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seldom_seen
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 1970
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| americandream wrote: | | an increasing number of Americans are moving to Latin Countries such as Belize. |
venezuela /= belize |
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americandream
Light Sweet Crude
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 1914
Location: kiwibush
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| seldom_seen wrote: | | americandream wrote: | | an increasing number of Americans are moving to Latin Countries such as Belize. |
venezuela /= belize |
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander...
the UK = the West = the US.
Belize = Latin America = Venezuela.
Rules of the game.
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seldom_seen
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Apr 12, 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| belize = formerly british honduras = british colony until 1964 = the west = the US |
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americandream
Light Sweet Crude
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 1914
Location: kiwibush
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| seldom_seen wrote: | | belize = formerly british honduras = british colony until 1964 = the west = the US |
Add to that initial list, Jamaica, Trinidad, vast areas of Asia, Africa, and the West is largely the globe.
Add to that a twist of lemon and we have:
Venezuela = formerly Spanish colony = to your specious reasoning.
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seldom_seen
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 1970
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| Venezuela = last great hope for the marxist true believers = don't hold your breath = oil export dependent petro state well beyond peak |
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americandream
Light Sweet Crude
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 1914
Location: kiwibush
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| seldom_seen wrote: | | Venezuela = last great hope for the marxist true believers = don't hold your breath = oil export dependent petro state well beyond peak |
We'll see. The old rules are out the window and glass beads don't buy the goods anymore. That's all that matters.
On another point seldom....when they're well fed at home, they aren't going to be at you door...immigration problem solved. Something right wingers often miss whilst its staring them in the face.
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Eli
Fusion
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Posts: 3896
Location: In a van down by the river
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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Well considering that Hugo has kicked out all the major oil companies from the country you can expect to see there oil revenue start to slide.
Without oil revenue Venezuela would be a socialist paradise along the lines of Cuba.
There is no way that government control will be able to maintain production levels. |
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abelardlindsay
Heavy Crude
Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 399
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| americandream wrote: | | More right wing propaganda. My Venezuelan chat friend tells me that the very opposite is taking place. In fact on Joe Baegent, the talk is that an increasing number of Americans are moving to Latin Countries such as Belize. |
I'm interested to hear what things are going on in Venezuela  . I would like to hear direct accounts and not rebroadcast tv and radio propaganda. BTW, Belize ain't Venezuela.. My friends from South America always complain about how Americans think every country in Latin America is exactly like Mexico. |
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Shannymara
Master
Joined: Oct 04, 2004
Posts: 5392
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| seldom_seen wrote: | | belize = formerly british honduras = british colony until 1964 = the west = the US |
I'm not sure if you're being facetious or not, but I lived in Belize for 5 years. I was living there when it went from British Honduras to Belize. I can assure you, it's closer to Latin America than to the US, although it's become more USian since I lived there. When the black gold dries up it'll revert to Latin American in short order, to the great detriment of the USians living there. Which is why I didn't move back there a couple of years ago.
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master_rb
Heavy Crude
Joined: Feb 06, 2006
Posts: 166
Location: passaic, new jersey
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| no point to argue about left or right. south america whichever way they go will be a mess, same thing with middle east, oil's gone and the good times are gone too. america wouldn't collapse if it made a shift to left and europe wouldn't collapse if it made a shift to right, it's all in the culture (people) and not the system |
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Rafa
Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| Eli wrote: | | Well considering that Hugo has kicked out all the major oil companies from the country you can expect to see there oil revenue start to slide. |
Huh? Quite the contrary, as the venezuelian state is the majority owner of oil fields, the share of oil revenue going to the state has increased.
| Quote: | | There is no way that government control will be able to maintain production levels. |
Why? It's already some 5 or 6 years that the venezuelian state has taken real control of PDVSA; the extraction (remmeber, oil (iron, coal, bauxite, etc) is not "produced", it is extracted) hasn't had any special problem. Do you have any fact to base your prediction that venezuelian government won't be able to mantain operations? |
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Rafa
Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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| master_rb wrote: | | south america whichever way they go will be a mess, |
Actually South America is the only region of the world where there are active preparations for post-PO.
There is actually only one country in the world that has a sustainable development as defined by the WWF; and that country is in Latin America.
There are currently only three countries in the world that are phasing out incandescent light bulbs with low consumption ones in large scale, all three of them are in Latin America.
There is also a building/upgrading of reffining plants all around Latin America that will allow for local reffining in reduced amounts (instead of sending HUUUGE amounts of crude overseas and importing back reffined products).
Add to that the fact that there are oil and natural gaz reserves in Latin America that allows for 100 years or more of local consumption (that is, if the local ressources are used locally, instead of being sent northwards),
add also the fact that there are lots of unused arable lands, and lots of water; well, Latin America is probably the region of the world that will suffer the less with PO.
Last edited by Rafa on Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Eli
Fusion
Joined: Jun 18, 2005
Posts: 3896
Location: In a van down by the river
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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I misspoke-I meant to say that we will see their oil production start to slide. And there is already a precedent set by the likes of Mexico that shows state owned oil companies do not preform as well as professional private oil companies.
The problem is in state owned oil companies like Venezuela they tend to suck off all the profit for social programs in exchange for things like maintenance and exploration. Governments are great if you want to produce bureaucracy and waste they are not so good at producing oil efficiently. Hugo will end sucking the profits out of the oil production to build his new pet social project.
Last edited by Eli on Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tyler_JC
Moderator
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Joined: Sep 25, 2004
Posts: 4530
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Venezuela fears boom may go bust: |
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Belize is a beautiful English-Speaking tourist destination and retirement hotspot for American ex-pats because of its lax immigration/tax laws.
Venezuela is a large, oil-dependent Spanish-Speaking third world country ruled by a left wing America-hater.
Venezuela and Belize could not be more different.
As for Venezuela's economy: In 1998 they had 11,000 industrial plants functioning, now it has less than 5,000.
Gasoline costs 13 cents a gallon in Venezuela, amounting to a staggering 95% subsidy compared with the wholesale price of gasoline on the open market.
Oil production peaked in 1998 and it doesn't seem like they will be able to reach anywhere near that level in the near future. (that massive dip in 2002 was due to an attempted revolution)
The only thing that is keeping them afloat right now is the high price of crude oil and the fact that they export a rather large % of their production. Private car purchases are up 50% compared to last year and production gains are limited. As they use more of that oil domestically and production keeps falling...exports will crash and they will be starved for foreign currency.
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