For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:53 am Post subject: Canada Question
I've been searching and can't find the information I'm looking for. Does canada import oil? Or do they purely export? If they don't import, then why have canadian gas prices been rising as quickly as US and other countries?
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 1416 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:14 pm Post subject:
Yes Canada imports oil, and exports oil. With respect to oil it is best to ignore the 49th parallel. Overall while North America (NA) imports oil some part of NA has a surplus (eg. Alaska Alberta, Texas) and they transfer their surplus to neighbouring regions that have a deficit. So Alberta Oil goes to the Midwest. It would be more expensive to ship oil to Quebec City than to Chicago therefore the Alberta producer gets the best price in Chicago. Similarly Venezuelan oil that is imported by tanker is cheeper in Quebec city than it is in Chicago (way inland).
The largest refinery in Canada is in Saint John New Brunswick. It imports all of it's oil.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:39 pm Post subject: Major energy saving technology debuts in Toronto
Enwave, a division of Enbridge Gas and the City of Toronto flipped the swtich on an innovative technology today which reduces the electrical load required to cool 32 million square feet of 130 dowtown office towers. This is a peak savings of 59 megawatts on the electrical grid, and most importantly, on peak power demand days.
Basically it uses very cold water drawn 5 km from the shoreline of Lake Ontario, at a depth of 83 metres, which is drawn in for use in the city water supply. This water layer at that lake depth is a consistent temperature of 4C. By the more effective heat ransfer to water based chillers vs. the typical forced air convection method and the high temperature differential in the heat exchanger the electric power demand for the condensing phase of the refrigeration cycle is reduced by 75%.
Article
This same technology could be easily enough employed in all major cities which border large fresh water lakes such as Chicago, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Buffalo, etc. I am not sure if it works well with large rivers, they would have to be extremely deep, but if so, the same principle should work there too. Diagram
Another similar application of this type of technology is in tropical islands bordering deep ocean water that is also at 4 celcius. (OTEC) Could save a fortune on air conditioning bills in those places.
There's on OTEC plant in Hawaii, near my parents' house. The tidepools there are really cool, because they contain critters you usually don't see, feeding off the cold, nutrient-rich water from the plant. They also use the water to farm lobsters.
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:34 am Post subject: Slight error
My mistake. Enwave is not affiliated with Enbridge Gas, I just assumed that as the logo and name looked similar. Enwave is owned by the Ontario Public Employees Pension Fund.
That would taKe a big load off the coastal places electricity needs, speacially in tRoPiCaL areas. They probably can't afford it though, most of the tropical places are 3rd world...
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:25 pm Post subject: Not so sure with salt water
I am fairly certain you would see additional costs for maintenance and substantially higher captial investment for stainless steel and beteer gasket and sealing materials if you used salt water as the cooling medium.
Toronto is lucky being on a large body of fresh water, most cites are not.
But large cities all use fresh water for drinking and depending on what the temperature of that water is, it could work similarly I suppose, though its not liklely at 4 degrees C.
Canada is still, technically at least, a developing country, and if it could afford this system to be built, I would think many countries could likewise, particularly the U.S.A., which shares the Great Lakes.
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 1416 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:22 pm Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
Canada is still, technically at least, a developing country, and if it could afford this system to be built, I would think many countries could likewise, particularly the U.S.A., which shares the Great Lakes.
Yep, if us hosers can do it surely its a piece of cake.
Sooooo....eventually would there be an appreciable rise in the lake temperature ? The return water would be carrying the condenser heat with it back to ( I assume ) the body of water it is drawn from - although we are talking about a massive body of water. Perhaps in this application it is a workable contribution without much in the way of side effects - I would be concerned if the source water was a smaller body of water.
Sorry folks, I couldn't resist:
Bob MacKenzie: Okay...go
Doug MacKenzie: Kuuulukookoo..koolukookoo !
Bob: Okay, welcome to Great White North, I'm Bob MacKenzie and this is my brother Doug...
Doug: How's it goin', eh ?
Bob: Today our topic is Peak Oil, and Doug says he can....he's got an idea..
Doug: I was reading a book by a guy...I think his name is Heidelberg... and he says we have to redesign our cities 'cause we can't keep wastin' the oil we got left....so I, like, thought....gee Doug, you sure take a lot of trips in the van to go get beer.....so, like, if we didn't make all those trips in the van, we wouldn't be using all that oil.....so I, like, thought again in my head...gee, Doug, if you didn't take the van to go get beer, how would we get our beer ?
Bob: Okay, like, get to the good part...
Doug: Okay, so what we do is we, like, have a beer depot on every street corner in Canada, and then, like, even if you're loaded, you can just walk to the corner for beer !
Bob: I know what your thinkin' right now, is like, how can I listen to "Stairway to Heaven" real loud on the stereo in my van if I can't drive my van.....and the batteries dead...okay, go
Doug: Okay, well you get a mouse and you tie a stick to his neck with a piece of cheese on it and you put him on a treadmill that's hooked up to your car's generator, and he'll, like , keep goin' until he, like, dies, eh ?
Bob: Okay, our times up.....
Well, since the water in question is the same water that flows to the potable water system, its not an additional demand, just a heat transfer step enroute, there would be no affect on the lake temperature.
In any case the water ends up returning via the sewer sytem, and therefore returns to the lake at the same temperature as before.
Even if the system was just a flow directly back to the lake at 10 degress warmer than when drawn out, it is inconsequentil relative to the water flow thorugh Lake Ontario, if you consider the flow rate at Niagara Falls as indicative of the flow rate of Lake Ontario.
I work in a large datacenter, exchangers on the roof cool water for use in liebert AC units in the actual facilities. Now I dont know the technicalities, but water is way more dense, the water going into the liebert only comes out maybe 5 or 6 degrees hotter and keeps the room an easy 60 degrees constantly. The energy latant in warm air is far less than the ability for water to absorb it, it would be no worse than the local powerstations releasing there water back into the ocean, I know that in my area (LA) that seal beach and huntington beach both do it.
The large amounts of water in the lake, plus its surface area to radiate heat from, would pretty much equalize the temperates of the discharged water pretty effectively.
It'd be nice to see OTEC developed in more places, there's easily 200 very large buildings (20+ stories) in every major metropolitan area in America.
Not that 75 megawatts saved in 10 cities would stop peak oil.
Photo
The water doesnt even get sent back into the lake, the heat is exchanged with the local water supply in a closed loop system, probably not good for keeping bacteria from growing in the water but it works right :D
HOT UNDER the collar By LINDA LEATHERDALE, BUSINESS EDITOR 14-July-2005
HOT UNDER the collar over skyrocketing pump prices? Well, you ain't see nothing yet.
Not only is $1-a-litre on its way -- but this record heat wave means you're going to faint when this summer's electricity bill hits.
It was yet another broken promise by FIBeral leader Dalton McGuinty that lifted Ontario's hydro price caps, so we gluttonous energy consumers would curb our consumption.
But let's get real. The hottest summer on record hits us -- and not even smart meters can stop Ontarians from trying to stay cool. For health reasons, some people have no choice.
And for the record (for environmentalists who label me an energy-guzzling suburbanite who keeps the lid off my Jacuzzi), not only do I not have a Jacuzzi, but I don't have air conditioning. I did, however, break down and put in a pool. My daughter is forever grateful.
So, like everyone else, I'm bracing myself for yet another horrific electricity bill, which on top of these record high gasoline prices is busting the bank. My paycheque has not doubled or tripled like the cost of these necessities in life have.
The reality is demand for hydro is at record levels, which is why electricity was cut off temporarily in parts of Toronto yesterday. And our bills are going to reflect it.
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