Its a familiar theme, Britains cities in engulfed of lawless crimewaves.

For the past couple of weeks there has been a long running story about a plant to stick an permenantly armed patrol into the UKs crime hotspots. There are a few places where the police are routinely armed, notably terrorist targets like airports and parliament. Each force also has a specialist trained officers who are available as a quick armed response (in London this is SO19, usualy identifyable as 3 officers in a marked BMW). The plan was allegedly to have a high profile SO19 patrol (not just a response unit available) in high crime zones. The outcry including from the local residents and councellors was so great that the old bill have been back peddling faster an MPs expenses claim

Story in the gruniad.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/2 ... ols-london

Yes we do have a serious issue of crime and disorder, but in perspective our police are only rarely ever armed, hell there is a long running furore about giving specialist fire arms officers tazers!

The huge advantage of the current British system is that an armed officer is usually a very highly trained specialist, closer to millitary special forces in some ways than just another constable. Less mistakes and better comunity relations. The fallout from mistakes can be pretty serious i.e. JC De Menzies.

In my state I can legally carry a pistol to defend my Liberty from those who would seek to take it.

The Crown doesn't trust the British population to defend themselves, do they? It seems that is an unalienable right of sentient beings, to defend themselves.

I do have to wonder about the legitimacy of a government if the government is afraid of its own citizens.

it is not about the gouverment beeing afraid of its citizens. It is about keeping the number of deaths and wounded among civilians low. Keep the society civilised.

Why do americans think the gubermint actually fears guns among civilians? It is not a threat to them in any way.

I feel sorry for you, but here in Canada, we're not far behind you.

That's why we rebelled. It was after all the Crown's attempt to disarm us that lit the fuse.

well.. firearms amongst civilians are not that kind of threat to those in power any more.

Only to other civilians, and cops.

Every man for himself, fear thy neighbour, and the elites have control.

The ability of small arms to stop armys in cities is well documented. Do not underestimate what small arms can do in the hands of a determined foe.

So you believe that if I and my family are attacked, I should be prevented by law from defending myself and I have to call someone licensed by the state who will arrive and defend me 15-90 minutes after the assault has actually started. Only those licensed by the state can defend an individual. That is actually barbaric and unnatural and it's an affront to my humanity for you to suggest that I subjugate myself to such ridiculousness.

Your point is not supported by statistics. In the USA, it is the municipalities which ban firearms that have the highest and ever-increasing crime rates. We are not all as lucky as Sweden to have such a homogeneous and socially conscious society. I lived in Europe for 11 years. Most locations in Europe are very different than the USA so the rules which work for Sweden will probably not work for most locations in the USA. In Sweden, firearms probably kill more people negligently than they save from crime. In the USA, firearms save more people from crime than they kill negligently (I'm speaking about accidents, not criminal behavior since criminals do not follow gun-control laws by definition).

You seem to think that you are arguing from a point of strength. Actually, if a society has been disarmed, it has been emasculated. The population are now subjects, not citizens. I am a citizen and full participant in my country, not a vassal of the state.

Sweden itself is not as bad as the UK in relation to firearms ownership. I've seen several Swedes who have FALs and SIG rifles. I'm unsure of your laws pertaining to handguns ownership and the right to protect your family from home intruders, however. But I'm sure you have less of that anti-social behavior than we have in the USA.

Also Gorm, just for you since you're Swedish, I own two Swedish Mausers made in the 1890s. They look like they were made just 10 years ago, but they are both about 100-110 years old and they still function like new. The craftsmanship and accuracy is rivaled by none. They are M96 6.5x55 rifles with the Carl Gustaf stamps on them. They are the finest rifles every made by the hand of Man on this planet, in my opinion (and I've owned just about all of them at one point in time).

I think the police in this country are going to be very busy in the near future.

If this is what the mob did when times were relativeley good then what's going to happen when resources get scarcer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVquOmFJ0U

Our streets are safer now knowing that our crime fighting mayor of london is out after dark protecting us.....



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... -armstrong

The frumpy but loveable right wing mayor and the spikey in yer face enviromental film maker.... there is a tv series in there somewhere!

A group of ex-miners were amoung the biggest trouble makers on that day, they bussed themselves in and caused mayhem. Vengence for Orgrieve and all that.

I was there that day and got attacked by a mob.....


of coppers

As usual their indiscriminate use of violence caused more trouble than it stopped.

Didn't see any groups of violent miners.