have you all read Roberto Saviano´s "Gomorra"?... u should... he explains the relation between corruption and construction in italy at least.. but knowing the portuguese reality of the last years i see a lot of resemblances with the mafia schemes he mentions...

Spanish house sales drop rapidly



Looks as if prices have a long long way to drop.

The title says it all
Spain tips into depression

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6228390/Spain-tips-into-depression.html

If Spain's building bubble was what propped up its economy, a wage reduction of 10% is not going to do jack. It is surprising how weak Spain's economy is. I wonder if this is also the case for a lot of other EU members. The EU is looking like an economic paper tiger.

France and Germany have pretty robust economies, relatively speaking.

A lot of the boom in the Spanish real estate market was due to Brits buying second homes during the boom years. That's not coming back for a long time, IMO, if ever. However, I don't see how this can be extrapolated to the major EU economies.

Is there a thread about the UK going down, down down?

Or Ireland?

Both of these member states have had to inject huge sums into their banking systems. In contrast, Spain has had zero injections of public funds into its banking system. The Spanish system of savings banks, in contrast is in deep doo doo, but there was such a ridiculous boom in this sector because of the building boom, it should be expected to see a drastic contraction in the number of regional and local savings banks, the majority of which had over 50% of their investments in bricks and mortar.

The IMF recently gave us the news that europe would achieve economic growth next year, except for Spain, due to the severity of the burst bubble. But since the IMF never warned us we were about to experience one of the worst recessions in history, well, we shall take their words with some suspicion.

I agree with davep, there's simply no way the economy can go back to growth based on the sale of homes. Spain already has an unbelievable over supply of NEW buildings somewhere in the region of a million, having constructed 800,000 new buildings in the years prior to the onset of the slump. The overall condition of the european economy means no other european has the means to buy a second home in Spain, and practically no Spaniard has the means to buy a new first home. This has created a really weird landscape of new buildings bedecked with For Sale signs and encouraging terms from the banks responsible for financing them. In effect most of Spain's homes now belong to the banks.

An annecdote illustrating the paradox is a friend of mine who decided to buy a newly built apartment after living all her married life in a 30 year old apartment block. They caught the tail end of the boom but hoped to sell their old place to ease the financing of the new apartment the promoter had persuaded them was a good move. This was two years ago. The new place was built, they moved in last year without having sold the old place and with the mortgage still hanging round their necks.

Today they are living alone in the new block of 9 apartments, the mortgage on their old place has been paid off, but now they are paying the interest rates on it. The new place has the new mortgage. The husband has lost his night shift in a company producing clothes and equipment for construction site workers (!) and their second teenage daughter is about to start government funded job training.

We talk a lot about pardoning the foreign debt of this poor country or that. If the banks pardoned the extortionate interest payments they are charging on the paid for mortgage, this family for one, would receive some relief from the weight of this 'unforeseeable' recession, caused in large part by the banks and their pet politicians.

Not really, Brits bought houses but I think the % was very low, if you were here you could see the frenzy, everyone was just going insane, every month apartments got 6.000 euros more expensive and if you went to the bank asking for credit they were like -what? You're only asking for 300.000? What if we give you 500.000 and you get that car you always dreamed of and a good vacation? Come on boy, just sign here!

If they were self employed (many are) they recieve a pay of 0 (zero) euros.

You bet

Not really, its just an extension for a few more months and you only get it if you fit some very wierd qualifications.

But giving free money won't fix the problem in the long term anyhow.

Well then Robert Ruiz must be high on some hard sh*t because we are light years from being competitive and also salaries are incredibly low already, besides if we were to compete by salary then we must do against places like Estonia or Romania who make by with much much less than us.

Call me a pessimist but the future doesn't look too bright, as soon as the core of Europe passes the crisis the European Central Bank is going to pump up the price on money. This (I think) will happen at the same moment that many quit getting their unemployment pay, so your mortgage goes from 1.100 euros to 2.100 and your income from sh*t to zero, and I presume gas will go up too. Jobs? Well, there are a few jobs but the kind of you rather dumpster dive than take. Another mistery is how is the gov going to pay the millions of goverment workers that do nothing all day long.

No need for one thread, several of that theme exist in economics and finance and the Europe section.

The UK 'going down', 'facist state' and in 'anarchy' are standards memes round here.