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Page added on August 26, 2016

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Your Damn Children are Killing the Planet

Your Damn Children are Killing the Planet thumbnail

There, he said it. Children, especially American born children in particular, are a burden to the world’s climate.

On a recent episode of the popular NPR show “All Things Considered,” Jennifer Ludden reported that Travis Rieder, a faculty member at Johns Hopkins University’s Berman Institute of Bioethics, “has proposed a controversial remedy for the effects of global warming: population control.”

When it comes to climate change, Professor Rieder posits, “So here’s what’s happening, when I have a kid I’m creating a being who’s doing [a] much greater proportion of the contribution to the harm. And she’s not going to suffer for it. The other kid is. And that seems unfair.” He says the world’s poorest nations will suffer most even though rich countries like the U.S. create far more carbon emissions per capita. So a child born in America is guiltier than a child born in an impoverished country. Take that thought in for a second.

This a perfect example of the regressive thinking of the climate elites. Hating people is not a new thing for central planners. Predictions of global catastrophe have been the central organizing principle of futurists and despots alike. Think Paul Ehrlich’s “The Population Bomb” or Margaret Sanger’s call for eugenics or Lester Brown’s “Full Planet, Empty Plate.” In her new book, Fossil Fuels: Exposing the Mad War on Energy, the Texas Public Policy Foundation’s Kathleen Hartnett White counters these claims with facts. “Not one of Ehrlich’s many predictions ever came true. Food supply per person has dramatically increased, while the rate of population growth has substantially declined in those developing countries most contributing to the rapid increase since 1950.”

Hating people is not a new thing. Neither is hypocrisy. Even Rieder himself is guilty of contributing to the climate problem, for as he admits in the NPR story, he has a young daughter.

To be fair to his position, according to a Johns Hopkins study, Professor Rieder concludes that “reducing global fertility by half a child per woman could have a substantial impact on global warming, and he tells Ludden, the NPR reporter, that he believes in a moral imperative for population control.” A moral imperative for those who get to live.

Specifically, Dr. Rieder suggests governments should “encourage family planning to cut down on family size.” “The U.S. government, for example, should rescind tax credits for new parents and instead impose a carbon tax on dependents, he says. And in poorer countries, governments could pay women to refill their birth control prescriptions.”

So what about this overpopulation problem he is so concerned with? According to the World Bank, world population growth has dropped precipitously over the last 50 years from a rate of 2.1% to 1.18% last year. In the United States our rate of growth is down to 0.8 %. Think about that fact for a moment.

It is really not surprising that climate elitists would come to the conclusion that people are the problem, not our greatest resource. Of course, if he really had courage he would advocate that all domestic pets be “put down” for the cause of climate. They, after all, breathe out carbon dioxide.

Then again, according to the Energy Information Agency, U.S. energy-related carbon dioxide emissions in 2015 were 12% below their 2005 levels.

Like it or not, America is the world’s engine for technology and innovation, powered by affordable, reliable, plentiful energy. These factors foster an environment that produces health and prosperity for people all over the world, for rich and poor nations alike. A poor African girl deserves to grow up with the same access to opportunity as a young girl growing up in suburban Maryland. That is a problem worth solving.

Sadly, what Reider misses, is that, unlike many of the world’s poor, it is highly likely that his daughter will be raised in a safe, nurturing environment with access to high quality education, plentiful energy and food, and someday may well find the cure to cancer. She is not a burden. The world will be better, not worse off, because of not in spite of her.

real clear energy



100 Comments on "Your Damn Children are Killing the Planet"

  1. Makati1 on Fri, 26th Aug 2016 9:25 pm 

    HARM, you have just won your diploma from the USMSM School of Propaganda. Congratulations! You are now fully brainwashed and an Ameero-centric Sheeple!

    Keep dreaming that the US is going to be the “last man standing”, when reality says it will be the first to go.

    “The US is spiraling down into financial, economic and political collapse, losing its standing in the world and turning into a continent-sized ghetto full of drug abuse, violence and decaying infrastructure, its population vice-ridden, poisoned with genetically modified food, morbidly obese, exploited by predatory police departments and city halls, plus a wide assortment of rackets, from medicine to education to real estate… That we know.

    We also know how painful it is to realize that the US is damaged beyond repair, or to acquiesce to the fact that most of the damage is self-inflicted: the endless, useless wars, the limitless corruption of money politics, the toxic culture and gender wars, and the imperial hubris and willful ignorance that underlies it all… This level of disconnect between the expected and the observed certainly hurts, but the pain can be avoided, for a time, through mass delusion.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/thousand-balls-of-flame-a-whiff-of-world-war-iii-hangs-in-the-air-cold-war-2-0-is-on/5542676

    Be patient. The “shit” is fast approaching the proverbial fan and when it hits the US will be done/finished/toast. Meanwhile, most Filipinos will not even notice the change. Nor the Chinese peasants, nor the Bangladeshis, etc. The ones the 1st world like to put down as the problem.

  2. ghung on Fri, 26th Aug 2016 10:52 pm 

    Jeez, Mak, you sound like the neighbor’s Chihuahua yapping at the Rottweiler next door.

  3. rockman on Fri, 26th Aug 2016 11:32 pm 

    “…America is the world’s engine for technology and innovation, powered by affordable, reliable, plentiful energy. These factors foster an environment that produces health and prosperity for people all over the world, for rich and poor nations alike.”

    Funniest damn thing I’ve read in a while. The US has 4.4% of the global population and we consume 20% of the world’s oil, 22% of the NG and 11% of the coal.

    Affordable? Except for those who have to spend a disproportionate portion of their income for energy.

    Reliable? As long as nothing disrupts that huge portion represented by oil imports.

    Plentiful? We import a large and very disproportionate portion of our oil consumption.

    Just a guess but I suspect a significant number of those folks in “poor nations” won’t be lining up to kiss Uncle Sam’s ass anytime soon. LOL.

  4. Apneaman on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 12:04 am 

    Deep South higher education.

    A New Course At Arkansas Colleges: How To Not Get Pregnant

    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/08/26/491240645/a-new-course-at-arkansas-colleges-how-to-not-get-pregnant

  5. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 12:09 am 

    ghung, Rockman has a better grasp of America than you do. All this fluff about oily problems and the “Others” causing all of the Us’ problems is unimportant in the long run, and the long run is what we all are looking to live thru.

    If nuclear war doesn’t wipe out humans, climate change will. At the rate of temperature change and the increasing ferocity and occurrence of “unusual” weather, the time for both are not far off.

    Besides, I enjoy braking the fantasy bubble Americas live in. No country deserves what is coming more than the 330+ million Americans who don’t give a damn about the rest of the world. Who want to blame it all on “THEM”.

    I hope the crash happens soon, and is humongous, before Americans can start WW3 and end the world in a nuclear exchange. Tomorrow would be fine. Are YOU prepared for a world of survival, not convenience, ghung?

  6. theedrich on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 12:53 am 

    But no one wants the solution:  stop importing ThirdWorld microcephalics and giving them freebies to make them “equal” to the natives;  deport all illegal aliens;  sterilize at least the lower-IQ third of the population, as well as those who have obvious genetic defects (see Richard Lynn on this);  don’t incarcerate the Dr. Kevorkians of the nation;  understand that “equality” is the enemy of liberty;  admit that it was long ages of evolution, not “God” or Georg Sörös that produced our species.

    For such a solution would have to dismiss the Christian (especially American-Protestant) fantasy that Whites are “guilty” by reason of their alleged protoparents eating an “apple” (whence the Apple logo, etc.).  The idea of a Cosmic Intellect is certainly reasonable in the light of modern science, but not the collection of fairy tales, myths, ditties, outright fiction and stories of ancient warmongering, etc., known as the Bible, let alone the Quran.

    Ultimately, the problem is “democracy,” since “the people” will always vote themselves infinite growth, and can be easily manipulated by sob stories.  The history of complex societies has always shown the same pattern:  continue the current path of complexification until collapse or takeover by enemies.  As Fred Hoyle said so long ago (Of Men and Galaxies, p. 65), “Our special problem today is just this:  we are essentially primitive creatures struggling desperately to adjust ourselves to a way of life that is alien to almost the whole of the past history of our species.”  Frankly, our current primitiveness is too limited to allow us to survive much longer.  And “compassion” for the lower levels of our species will shorten even what time we have left.

  7. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 3:41 am 

    Makati says: “I hope the crash happens soon, and is humongous, before Americans can start WW3 and end the world in a nuclear exchange. Tomorrow would be fine. Are YOU prepared for a world of survival, not convenience, ghung”

    Be carefull with what you wish for… a “crash” could very well ignite, not “prevent”, a real shooting WW3, as a flight forward for Washington and a way out in order to blame the crash on foreigners.

    Ghung knows that WW3, in his own words “is already well underway”… in Syria and Iraq, in Ukraine, Baltic States and, interesting for you, in the South China Sea. The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that if the SCS situation escalates, that China could feel obliged to occupy the Ps in order to prevent that the US will use the islands as a base to attack China and control shipping. Taiwan same story. The Chinese have endless manpower to carry out an occupation.

    And if they do occupy the Ps, you as an American might well end up in a Chinese internment camp. Are you prepared for that?

    Here 1942 Americans, interned by the Japanese on the Ps:

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jappenkampen_in_Nederlands-Indië#/media/File:Liberation-Men–_santo_tomas.jpg

    That ain’t pretty.

  8. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 4:53 am 

    Earlier this week I watched the impressive Indian-made documentary “Powerless” on Dutch television about third world shit hole Kanpur (3 million) in India:

    https://youtu.be/pERYLWMQnqg
    https://youtu.be/1lX-_czPzLI
    (English-Hindi)

    The core of the story is about electricity, being distributed legal and foremost illegal. The electricity company obviously wants to see the consumers pay, against which the have-not illegal tappers protest.

    Between the developing story line you see the depressing reality of life in the third world.

    Interesting is that somewhere in the beginning of the documentary, citizens make mocking remarks about the incompetence of the local authorities and compare them negatively with the British colonizer, who setup all the imeanwhile decaying infrastructure, still around today.

    Wanna know where Hitler is most popular today? In India.
    Wanna know which prominent figure warned Europe recently against the immigration folly? The Dalai Lama:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/31/the-dalai-lama-says-too-many-refugees-are-going-to-germany/

    India has a strict caste system and the whiter you are, the higher your position in the societal hierarchy. Indians have ZERO talent for kosher marxism and envy. Religion is too strong for that. For them white people are something positive, people who bring civilization and progress.

    Ok, having made these observations, now a quote from the article written by the typical western pc leftist doo-gooder with not a too impressive aura:

    “When it comes to climate change, Professor Rieder posits, “So here’s what’s happening, when I have a kid I’m creating a being who’s doing [a] much greater proportion of the contribution to the harm. And she’s not going to suffer for it. The other kid is. And that seems unfair.” He says the world’s poorest nations will suffer most even though rich countries like the U.S. create far more carbon emissions per capita. So a child born in America is guiltier than a child born in an impoverished country. Take that thought in for a second.”

    The typical western devirilized doo-gooder Travis N. Rieder in “full glory”:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/764107808619032576/q4_uE_4H.jpg

    Do the people of Kanpur necessarily agree with Rieder? I doubt it.
    The worst thing that can happen to them would be if white people would seize to exist altogether, as promoted by down-with-us low lifes like Rieder. If the West would “collapse racially”, the entire third world would collapse with it, back to the stone age.

    “Hurray!” would shout not too few posters and closet-nihilists here, prime example being wichserlein apneaman. According to these morbids the planet is too good to harbor humans and their disappearing would be a good thing. Better have 300 ppm CO2 and a planet without humans than 500 ppm CO2 and 7 billion people.

    The most human approach for the entire world is for the first world NOT to commit racial suicide, but instead continue to produce methods and technologies that will “trickle down” from the first to the third world. Example: I had my first GSM cell phone, a fat Nokia, somewhere around 1995. Today, merely twenty year later, even in Africa a substantial part of the population has access to mobiel telephony and even internet:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_telephony_in_Africa

  9. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 5:03 am 

    continued:

    Without whites in this world, they would still beat the tam-tam.

    People don’t necessarily polute, they do when they begin to become mobile, with cars and planes. Mobility should be addressed, not the further cripling of an already declining race, due to feminist Rottweilers with opinions rather than children:

    https://youtu.be/LmK77mhWt_I

    Yes, there are too many people on this planet, but in the interest of whites and non-whites alike it would be better if more white children would be born, at replacement level, preferably from smart mothers, to prevent complete civilizational collapse.

    F* Rieder.

  10. Kenz300 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 6:24 am 

    Endless growth, especially endless population growth is unsustainable………….Climate Change will impact all of us and cause enormous problem for countries and people around the world……… this is the great challenge of our times……. will future generations be doomed to suffer the consequences of our actions….

    Should We Be Having Kids In The Age Of Climate Change?

    http://www.npr.org/2016/08/18/479349760/should-we-be-having-kids-in-the-age-of-climate-change

    Too many people……….create too much pollution and demand too many resources….

    China made great progress in moving its people out of poverty…….one reason was slowing population growth…..

    If you can not provide for yourself you can not provide for a child.

    CLIMATE CHANGE, declining fish stocks, droughts, floods, air water and land pollution, poverty, water and food shortages all stem from the worlds worst environmental problem……. OVER POPULATION.

    Yet the world adds 80 million more mouths to feed, clothe, house and provide energy and water for every year… this is unsustainable… and is a big part of the Climate Change problem

    Birth Control Permanent Methods: Learn About Effectiveness

    http://www.emedicinehealth.com/birth_control_permanent_methods/article_em.htm

  11. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 6:39 am 

    Cloggie, I am well informed about all of the 20th’s wars. I know what I am saying. The Us needs to be taken down before the nukes can fly. And the sooner the better for the rest of the world. WW3 is not going to be like WW2, just like WW2 was not anything like WW1, although many generals thought they could fight it with the same methods, to their loss. Some today have the same antique idea. Tanks and troops when the missile time from Moscow to DC is 15 minutes and to LA 20.

    Who gives a damn about the economy? Not important to survival. Nor is the dollar. America is slowly committing suicide and the Chinese and Russians are helping it along every way they can short of war, while both are preparing for that possibility.

    If there is an election in November, it may be the last one in America. The US is a dictatorship in all but name. It is run by a few rich old men who are insane with hate and want to destroy their foes, even if it means human extinction. They are so old, they don’t care about anything but that hate.

    America is divided, spoiled, disintegrating and most young Americans are not even at the 4th grade level in education. Dumb sheep following their black shepherd to the slaughter. So be it.

    Ah well, you either see what I am talking about or are in denial. It took me almost five years to see, and accept, the obvious. Some never will because they don’t want to or because they know and are scared to death of what is to come. Prep now. Time is short.

  12. Davy on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 6:52 am 

    I have read enough to question “white” remarks. I have academic questions with the value of civilization to begin with and especially white ones. Our civilization produced overshoot and ecological destruction. We have destroyed a stable climate in a very short 200 years. We have alienated ourselves from others and ourselves individually. Racist have not given me answers to those conditions. There is no arguing those negative positions in my view.

    Deniers are delusional. Denial is across a broad spectrum and is present in all current cultures. What I like about doom is honesty. Doom seeks to tear apart positions from the point of view of what is not working. Where are the problem starting points? It is easy to claim positives and success. It is much harder to defend them. It is easy to see clearly failure and there are no reasons to defend them. Failure is the clearest way to base ones decisions especially in a macro turning of an age. If you see failure then you can cut apart positions with reality testing. You can move forward by avoiding them. This was handicapped in the growth phase but it is very advantageous in the decline phase of civilization.

    At one level in the here and now status quo of daily living we have to manage to get along best we can. We do not have the luxury any more of “isms” leading to new worlds within the status quo. Conquest and manifest destiny are history. The status quo is checked and its only option is collapse process. It is in our interest to ride it out because the alternative is a quick die off. This die off once initiated will by necessity end up in the vicinity of 1BIL. It is the decay, deflation, destructive change, death, and dysfunction that will converge and positively reinforce into a trend of a die off.

    We have reached a high degree of complexity and with that a high degree of unsustainability. Once we start down that decline path we are on an unstoppable gradient. We are on that path now but at the beginnings. How fast do we want to dive into collapse? This in itself is a debate. It reflects life. It is often the case that a hard and quick event is more effective than a slow drawn out one. In the case of our global interconnected world where many of us have compassion for others the idea of a quick die off is horrible. When do we let reason trump emotions and vice versa? In any case nature is in charge now so we will follow her lead. There is only a small window for humans to affect change except at the level of destruction from a global war.

    I am talking about adaptation and mitigation of a complex civilization in unwind. This civilization is self-organizing and self-adaptive. It has hit limits and diminishing returns. If you analysis this condition then you can see immediately this will lead to dysfunction as all systems do that are systems of growth that hit the wall of limits. I see nothing in racism that offers salvation to the dysfunction ahead. Even the argument that homogenous populations are advantageous breaks down at a certain level. Eventually it is about survival however survival can be obtained. Two people of different color will work together if need be.

    Humans developed and prospered for multiple generations in a primitive state. Now that we are complex and global we have brought ourselves to the brink. I think everything we do and all paths forward must address that situation in humility and honesty. Racism and civilization are not offering me the answers. We are stuck with them but to go a step further and recommend them doesn’t fly with me. In fact I am wondering if we would be better of rejecting many things we consider civilization. I am referring to higher education and other modern values that promote increased complexity and growth. It appears to me we should be walking away from those things that are killing us. This is an academic exercise with no real utility for me personally. Academically this position it is very effective for those promoting more civilization and race superiority. You are failures and you are telling me to follow you? WTF.

    I am of the belief we are in a new age and that age is a paradoxical one. Right is wrong and wrong is right in regards to social narratives. We moderns have turned an epoch with climate and our ecosystem. Our growth based civilization has hit limits and is now in decline. That indicated a new reality and a new reality has different parameters of success. The status quo meaning and answers no longer prove to me the proper way forward. I am living in the status quo and on the fence. I am using the status quo to leave it where I see it of advantage spiritually and for physical survival. I am adapting. Racist and those promoting civilization are not adapting they are clinging to something with no future.

  13. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 6:52 am 

    Today I learned that the effective Trump spokeswoman Kathrina Pierson in 2009, when she was a member of the Tea Party, had advocated that Texas should secede from the union. Interesting that Trump would give her such a prominent position.

    http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/article49515060.html

    If Trump fails, Texit next option:

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/texas-secessionists-inspired-by-brexit-if-trump-fails-texit-seems-to-be-our-best-remedy/

  14. Boat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 7:20 am 

    clog,

    I read a piece saying the Dem’s were only 3.9 percent behind in registered voters. Changing demographics is the reason.

  15. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 7:27 am 

    I agree with most of what you say Makati, just a friendly advice from my side that when the situation in the SCS would escalate, it would be the perfect moment to have a very long vacation and finally visit, say Yellowstone Park, Niagara Falls or the Grand Canyon. 🙂

  16. Boat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 8:07 am 

    mak,

    Duterte warns of ‘bloody’ confrontation with China

    http://www.manilatimes.net/duterte-warns-of-bloody-confrontation-with-china/281959/

    If you support China over your host country, can you survive conflict? Maybe you should be packing your bags.

  17. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:00 am 

    Cloggie, I’m glad we can agree on a few points at least. But, your concern about the SCS is unfounded, from my view point next to it. I don’t see anything “escalating” here. The US is blustering, but it’s navy would NOT be in the SCS if there was a shooting war. It would be about 1,000 miles East of the Philippines, at least. Out of range of China’s carrier killer missiles.

    Besides, why would I want to jump from the frying pan into the fire by coming back to a dictatorship police state? If the SCS goes hot, the US is NOT going to be a safe place to be. If you think it will be, well …

  18. ghung on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:03 am 

    Mak said; “…ghung, Rockman has a better grasp of America than you do.”

    What do you base that assessment on, Mak. Because I said you sound like the neighbor’s Chihuahua? Or maybe because I don’t always agree with you? Forget the Chihuahua reference. I now dub thee Makloggie.

  19. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:15 am 

    Boat, Your interpretation of the news and my comments is way off base, as usual. He was addressing the Ps military and his comment was that the PS will defend their territory but he hopes that the Chinese are going to negotiate the situation in good faith. You read one short biased article and assume … As-u-me.

    He knows that the PS could not begin to militarily take on China, but he has to put on a strong face in the negotiations. I think he will pull it off and China will negotiate, IF the US stays out of it.

    BTW: This was also part of his speech, conveniently left out of the news article.

    “However, the President reiterated that he wants peaceful resolution in the ongoing conflict, saying he would do whatever it takes to achieve this.

    “We do not want a quarrel. I would walk the extra mile to ask for peace to everybody,” President Duterte vowed.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LouySxSYAhE

    The US does not like the new Prez as he is not a DC ass kisser like his predecessor and may just turn away from the Empire and towards China and Russia like many other countries are doing today. Now wouldn’t that be a kicker. lol

  20. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:17 am 

    Excellent find, Boat.

    Duterte (how many shoes does his wife have?) is behaving like Poland in 1939: rather than sliming themselves into a Machiavellian friendship with either Germany or Russia or both, in 1939 they relied on far away America and had to pay for that mistake with 45 years of slavery.

    China with 1300 million IQ100 inhabitants won’t move itself anytime soon, so it would make more geopolitical sense for the Ps to tone down a little.

  21. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:28 am 

    ghung, I don’t expect anyone to agree with me. I express MY view of what is happening and what I expect to see happening. That it does not reflect your thoughts or anyone else’ is not important to me. I am not looking for friends here. I have plenty of real friends. I am just expressing my view from my 72 years of living in this world. I know what happened since WW2 (1944) because I have lived it. I can have a good idea of what is coming because of that experience. There is nothing new under the sun, but, if you do not know history, you may think there is.

    I also have a good grasp of the English language. Reread your comment prior to rockman’s and see if you can see why I made that comment. BTW: The US is a beagle, maybe, (lots of noise but practically harmless). Not a rottweiler. lol

  22. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:30 am 

    Cloggie, read ALL of the articles about him, if you want a true picture. You seem to be cherry picking to make your argument.

  23. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:31 am 

    To add to my previous post, it is telling that Duterte is explicitly refering to the possibility of a Chinese invasion of the Ps, obviously in the context of a conflict with the US.

    This is absolutely not farfetched. I am reminding again to that ground-breaking article written by the most senior politician Australie has to offer, name Malcolm Fraser, who goes as far as saying that Australia should dump the US as an ally, because the reckless behavior of the US in the SCS could eventually cost Australia its independence:

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-australias-dangerous-ally-11858

    The ever cynical Europeans and Russians wouldn’t mind this development at all; they would think “better Australia than Siberia”.

    China would double its territory in one stroke.

  24. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:52 am 

    The Chinese can have Australia, and I would throw in New Zealand as a twofer.

    But why invade a country you can buy? Invasion is the Us method because it is a debtor nation. China is a creditor nation and has a lot of paper dollars to get rid of before they are worthless. It is buying the world.

    As for the Ps, the Chinese already own most of what is worthwhile in the Ps. Do some research about who owns what here. Hints:

    Henry Sy, Chinese-Filipino, $12.9 billion.
    John Gokongwei Jr., Chinese born, $6.8 billion.
    Andrew Tan, Chinese-Filipino, $2 billion.
    Etc.

  25. Davy on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:57 am 

    China has little chance in hell invading anywhere except neighboring land: Ocean invasions are ludicrous. Any invasion period is an endgame to China’s unbalanced export economy. IOW they will crash their economy and the rest of us.

  26. Boat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 10:03 am 

    mak,

    Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 9:00 am

    “The US is blustering, but it’s navy would NOT be in the SCS if there was a shooting war. It would be about 1,000 miles East of the Philippines, at least. Out of range of China’s carrier killer missiles”

    The US Navy is going nowhere. Just like in Ukraine, NATO missile and deployment are there to stay. In fact the more belligerent China/Russia become, the faster and urgency the buildup will be. 1000 miles east of the Philippines? lol How far away is India, Japan and South Korea. When China sees exports slipping away (which is their real power) they will rethink their position.

  27. Davy on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 10:10 am 

    It is easy to land troops. It is another thing to control land and people. It is a bigger step to do it without loosing your ass. China has a big bloated untested military that is also corrupt. They represent all that a military does not want to be.

  28. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 10:21 am 

    Are you calling Malcom Fraser a fool, Davy?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy

    If Japan in 1941 could whack the US fleet in Pearl Harbor and next invade the Dutch East Indies for the purpose of getting its oil there, after it was deprived of American oil first, you can certainly expect China to invade Australia as well. You can rapidly deploy troops with normal airliners these days.

    The Australian army has 28k troops and 16k reserves.

    China has 23,000k troops and 500k reserves. That’s a difference of a factor 800, quite significant, I would say.

    America announced the dawn of the “American Century” beginning 1941, that is half a year before they had cornered the Japanese to the tune that the latter had no choice but to attack into Pearl Harbor, a move desired and anticipated by Roosevelt as a trick to circumvent American public opinion and enforce WW2 participation, that would bring them Europe as well as planetary pole position:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6139.htm

    China has already declared that they intend to “de-americanize the world”:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/10/15/obama-china-xinhua-shutdown-debt-ceiling/2985581/

    Recently the Chinese government warned its population that a conflict could be immanent:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/chinese-media-warns-of-conflict-in-south-china-sea-let-the-us-pay-a-cost-it-cannot-stand-if-it-intervenes

    China is not directly known as a reckless gambler in international politics.

  29. Davy on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 10:32 am 

    We had this discussion already clog. I don’t keep politicians in high esteem except Putin. Putin is a killer and a thief but he is also the best of the best today. Your Malcom is a fruit cake. Clog, you show smarts in some area but you and Makati are lacking on military matters. It is probably too much mixing past history with new realities and a sprinkle of fantasy.

  30. rockman on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 10:45 am 

    Ghung – “Mak said; “…ghung, Rockman has a better grasp of America than you do.”
    What do you base that assessment on, Mak.”

    He probably based it upon the fact that I’m so much smarter then you. LOL. Just teasing…couldn’t resist a cheap shot. Mak likes me because he thinks I’m a bit anti-American. He mistakes it for my anti-mankind feelings. LOL.

  31. JuanP on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 10:51 am 

    Boat “The US Navy is going nowhere.”
    Yeah, right! I am 100% certain that the American Empire will last forever. Just like all the other empires that have existed in human history. LOL! You are very short sighted, boat, a typically American flaw. The American navy ships will return to the USA, if they are lucky, or probably rust and sink in place wherever they are abandoned as the USA goes bankrupt in the short term future. It is only a matter of when, not if. I look forward to that day as does most of humanity and hope to live to see it.

  32. ghung on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 11:04 am 

    Thanks, Rock. I think Mak likes you because you’re pro-Texas. Thinks you’ll invite him to Houston after Texas secedes and the PI gets over-run by Chinese.

    Anyway, I don’t pretend to have “a better grasp of America” than anyone else. Like Levon Helm said in “Shooter”,, “as soon as you think you’ve got things figured out, you’re wrong…”

    I just live here. At least I’m still dancing with the one who brought me, unlike some folks around here, eh?

  33. Brat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 11:27 am 

    “I think Mak likes you because you’re pro-Texas”

    I must remind you ghung that this is not a dating site.

  34. Boat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 12:10 pm 

    JuanP on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 10:51 am
    Boat “The US Navy is going nowhere.”
    Yeah, right! I am 100% certain that the American Empire will last forever.

    Why do you always seem to ignore the point made. I have never thought the US would last forever. I do think the US will not let the Chinese push smaller countries around till nukes take everyone out. If you ignore nukes China can’t compete militarily with the US and it’s alleys in the region.

  35. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 12:41 pm 

    “I do think the US will not let the Chinese push smaller countries around”

    That’s a hobby the US would like to exclusively reserve for itself (Iraq, Syria, Libya, Serbia)

    “If you ignore nukes China can’t compete militarily with the US and its allies in the region”

    What makes you so sure about that? The US and South-Vietnam couldn’t compete with North-Vietnam.

  36. peakyeast on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 1:50 pm 

    Why would anybody invade China is beyond my understanding. There are waay too many people there – and what anybody wants is the resources they sit on, consume and own.

    A war with China only makes sense IMO if you eradicate them all. An etno specific disease towards asians would be the Ace we caucasians need.

    Of course the opposite is true from the Asian perspective. That is the very point of an end game.

  37. Boat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 2:02 pm 

    clog,

    One conversion at a time. But yes, if China starts killing Americans you can add them to the list of (Iraq, Syria, Libya, Serbia).
    The US and South-Vietnam couldn’t compete with North-Vietnam.

    It’s not like the US Military been given a “scorched earth mandate” in any of those conflicts. They have that capability. This is where anti US commentators get confused. They confuse political decisions with military capability when judging conflict.

  38. theedrich on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 3:00 pm 

    On the issue of American wars, let us remember that the U.S.’s favorite way of getting into war is to ensnare the targeted opponent into attacking something or someplace that the elites can use as a casus belli.  This has been true ever since the Mexican-American War (1846-48).  Consider:

    Fort Sumter;
    the Sinking of the Maine;
    the “Zimmermann telegram”;
    Pearl Harbor (see Robert Stinnett’s Day Of Deceit:  The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor, among many other works);
    the Gulf of Tonkin fakery;
    U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie’s telling Saddam Hussein on July 25, 1990, that we didn’t care about whether he took over Kuwait (initiating Iraq War #1);
    the invention of Saddam’s WMDs as excuse for Iraq War #2;
    the “morality” argument (and “leading from behind”) for murdering “bad guy” Gaddafi and destroying Libya;
    the covert generation of a “spontaneous” civil war against Assad in Syria (shipping arms from Benghazi in then smashed Libya to Syria four hours before our ambassador and his guards were killed there).

    And now Hotflash calls Putin the “new Hitler.”

    And the masses always go along with it.  World War Three, here we come.

  39. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 3:30 pm 

    “But yes, if China starts killing Americans you can add them to the list of (Iraq, Syria, Libya, Serbia).”

    You absolutely lack a certain sense of proportion. For starters, in a conflict with China, you get Russia added to the mix, as a bonus.

    North-Vietnam, that was 20 million.
    China, that is 1300 million.
    Russia, that is 150 million, with the best nukes around.

    Or in your terminology: that’s quite a lot of “moles to be whacked”.

    About that “scorched earth mandate”… i would say that the people of North-Vietnam would have different view on this matter.

    North-Vietnam didn’t have nukes, China does.

    In contrast to almost everybody else here, I am saying that nukes are not going to be used in a conflict, at least not against cities. Too high a threshold for both.

    My expectation: a Chinese ultimatium on the basis of the artificial islands –> new 200 miles zone –> detonation in the vincinity of a US ship –> if the US doesn’t withdraw, a smaller ship is going to be sunk and the US will withdraw from the SCS.

    Next are sanctions and perhaps blockades of the Gulf. China has subs, based opposite the entrance of the Red Sea/Suez Canal.

    Russians can supply China over land, etc., etc.
    Iran is buddies with SCO, they already allowed Russian jets to start from their territory, they could allow Chinese jets as well.

    Europe can’t even afford to pick a side as too dependent on Russia fuel.

    Globalism is over for good.lol

    Nice opportunity for Texas to secede, soon followed by others who are not that interested in fighting China and Russia at the same time and poof says America.

  40. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 3:43 pm 

    @theedrich – you can the largest item to your list… if we are to believe the so-called Mannerheim files…

    http://prokarelia.net/en/?x=artikkeli&article_id=667&author=10

    http://juliusmilaitis.blogspot.nl/2011/05/finland-in-eye-of-storm-erkki.html

    … the US, UK war party around Churchill and Stalin had their strategy already coordinated before September 1939.

    The Soviets approached the Germans with their proposition of a non-agression agreement, with no other intention than to lure the Germans into invading Poland with the aim to come to the aid of their beleaguered countrymen, who were about to be slaughtered and/or cleansed from Poland. That was the trap for Hitler, set by Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill (not Chamberlain).

  41. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 3:43 pm 

    you can add the largest item to your list…

  42. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 4:02 pm 

    @peakyeast “Why would anybody invade China is beyond my understanding.”

    Absolutely nobody wants to invade China, not even Washington will contemplate that idea for a second.

  43. Boat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 4:32 pm 

    clog,

    In WW2 the US had 12 million troops abroad. In Vietnam the max was 550,000. Nam like today’s conflicts are not about winning but controlling regional conflict.
    I have more faith in Europe and other US allies than you do. Globalization or not international common groud will draw these countries together in a crisis.
    Have you ever looked up military spending by country? Do a quick tally
    on NATO countries vrs Russia and China. Then throw in other allies like India, Japan and S Korea.

  44. Cloggie on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 4:52 pm 

    India is not a US ally. This week they sided with China and Russia on Syria and support Assad.

    China can always vastly outnumber any number the US can come up with.

    There is not a showball’s chance in hell that the US can mobilize Europe against Russia-China over the right of the US to have navy vessels near China. Merkel will be lynched, provided she won’t be toppled before any major conflict will break out.

    And again, Washington won’t even be able to mobilize the Trump supporters behind the “globalists”.

    I expect that WW3 endgame will be fought on US soil, not in Eurasia, with Europeans fighting shoulder to shoulder with Amerikaner “constitutionalists” against “communists/globalists” like you, apneaman and ghung. A bit like 1776, albeit on a far larger scale.

    Ghung already thinks he is going to loose, a correct assessment.

  45. Boat on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 5:49 pm 

    Lol to be put with the ape and ghung on much of anything.

    You keep thinking this is a US problem. If this escalates to a shipping and fishing problem the world won’t stand for it. China isn’t that dumb. But as the conversation started. I don’t see the US Navy leaving the international waters of the South China Sea.

  46. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 6:15 pm 

    Cloggie, we agree on the point that the Us will be invaded and/or pounded by nukes in the next war. Boat has no clue…

  47. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Aug 2016 6:34 pm 

    BTW Boat, the US Navy’s ships will NOT leave the SCS. Correct! They will be sunk in place by the Chinese and make new reefs. Even the US Navy knows they are no longer safe within 1,000 miles of China. The Chinese have something called “Carrier Killers”. Do some real research instead of spouting propaganda.

  48. peakyeast on Sun, 28th Aug 2016 5:35 am 

    @cloggie: Hey thanks for that link to “powerless”. I love watching indian electrical installations. And their traffic intersections…

    Monty Python was way ahead of their time in the series where people sat and watched highway traffic on television all day and had an indian standing as remote control.

    I could easily imagine myself doing just about that with above modifications, of course.

  49. Cloggie on Sun, 28th Aug 2016 6:47 am 

    “BTW Boat, the US Navy’s ships will NOT leave the SCS. Correct! They will be sunk in place by the Chinese and make new reefs.”

    I was thinking the same thing.lol

    Boat is terribly naiv when he says that ‘the world won’t stand for it’, with which he implies that he thinks that the US has the entire world in its pocket, where in reality the US has merely Angela Merkel in its pocket.

    In 1991 the US had defeated the USSR and thought that it owned the world. In reality the list of defeats the US has suffered since is long.

    – 2000 The US lost Russia thanks to decisive leadership of Putin, who kicked out the oligarchs
    – 2001 The US kosher deep state organized 9/11 as a consequence of the US deep state PNAC intentions. They did that 3 months before the world began internet discussions on a scale on platforms like this one. After a couple of years many people world-wide concluded that 9/11 was an “inside job”, further diminishing the moral standing of the US
    – 2003 The US managed to topple Saddam. But the intention to add Iraq as an another lucrative meek member of the US global empire, like KSA, failed miserably. The opposite was achieved: large part of Iraq including Baghdad was effectively handed over to geopolitical advesary Iran.
    – 2011 After Iraq was handed over to the sphere of influence of Iran, a shi’ite crescent had been created ranging from Tehran all the way to the Mediterranean. The coast was now literally clear to build the Islamic Pipeline from Iran to the Mediterranean, this to the horror of US geo-strategists (and Russia). US counter plan: regime change in Damascus to pave the way for an alternative Sunni pipeline to Europe, from Qatar and KSA (also to the horror of Russia). The plan was outsourced to KSA, Turkey and Qatar, who would serve as a temping agency and rent-a-terrorist to do the dirty work. Just like worked (initially) in Afghanistan against the USSR. Totally unforeseen however was that the socalled “moderate” Jihadists, backed by Turkey, had an archaic agenda of reestablishing a Caliphate. After several desastrous successful terrorist attacks in Europe, the US lead West was saddled with an enormous PR problem and could no longer openly back the Syrian opposition.
    – 2014 Out of the blue, most European countries apply for membership of the China run AIIB. Washington is fuming, but can’t stop the European defection, nota bene with UK first.
    – 2016 Merkel, no doubt on orders of Soros & co, basically invited the entire third world to come to Europe. This unleashed strong rightwing reactions everywhere in Europe. All eastern European countries begin to build effective fences and outright reject Merkel, who insists that migrants (welfare tourists really) should be evenly distributed over European countries. 

    Polish nationalism 2015, the most massive of them all
    https://youtu.be/a7xqwm_c1_k

    Ukrainian nationalism 2014
    https://youtu.be/-Inu_-0dcSU

    French nationalism 2015
    https://youtu.be/nO6_fj9XTuQ

    European American nationalism 2016
    https://youtu.be/asyF3UqR-5s

    In America the gloves are off: white nativism against globalism:
    http://russia-insider.com/en/moment-reckoning-has-come-american-political-scene-hillary-reveals-alt-right-world/ri16135

    The GOP from now on is the White Party. The (white) cat is out of the bag. Old style American politics is over for ever.

    https://youtu.be/J9rvjdB-VRc
    Prominent member of Merkel government chased out of town. The Merkel government is the most important proxy the US has in Europe.

    The NWO is almost over. The West is facing a 1991 of its own.

  50. Kenz300 on Sun, 28th Aug 2016 7:28 am 

    Endless growth, especially endless population growth is unsustainable………….Climate Change will impact all of us and cause enormous problem for countries and people around the world……… this is the great challenge of our times……. will future generations be doomed to suffer the consequences of our actions….

    Should We Be Having Kids In The Age Of Climate Change?

    http://www.npr.org/2016/08/18/479349760/should-we-be-having-kids-in-the-age-of-climate-change

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