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Page added on February 3, 2018

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How Big a Disaster Can Climate Change Be?

Enviroment

 

Above, you can see an image from the paper by Marsicek et al., just appeared on Nature. It shows a reconstruction from pollen records of the temperatures of the past 10,000 year or so, the “Holocene,” for North America and Europe. Note the black squares, showing how fast temperatures have been growing during the past 50 years or so.
As all reconstructions of the past, this one has to be taken with some caution, but it fits well with the various “hockey sticks” that research continues to produce despite the attempts to discredit both the science and the scientists who work in this field. So, we can assume these results to be reasonably reliable. Then, we can note a few interesting things.
1. What we call “civilization” arose and continued to exist during a period of relatively constant temperatures, that is, during the past 5000 years or so. During this period, the oscillations in the graph are never more than about half a degree. That’s probably not a coincidence. Agriculture and civilization come together and it is unlikely that agriculture could have been developed for wildly oscillating temperatures and rapidly varying climates
2. Civilizations seem to grow and collapse because of internal factors – the fall of empires doesn’t seem to be correlated to climate change. For instance, you can look in the graph for the data corresponding to the fall of the Roman Empire, between 2000 and 1500 years ago. Temperatures are flat, at most cooling a little. It is a point that I already made on the basis of another set of data specific for the region occupied by the Roman Empire. These more detailed data show a cooling period in Europe, but after the fall of the Empire.
3. Some relatively intense oscillations in the curve appear at about 3000 years bp, which corresponds to the collapse of the Late Bronze Age civilization. This might support the interpretation by Eric Cline who sees climate as a concause of the collapse. Maybe, but can a whole civilization collapse abruptly as the result of a temperature change of just a couple of tenths of degrees? Personally, I tend to think the opposite. That is, the modest temperature change of the Late Bronze Age has been triggered by the collapse of the Mediterranean civilization of that time.
4. Note how some much touted events of the past – for instance the “Medieval Warm Period” – appear as just minor perturbations in the curve. Overall, it seems that the effect of human activity on climate has been marginal until the age of fossil fuels.
5. According to Ruddiman, the relative stability of the past 8000 years or so is the result of the release of greenhouse gases produced by human agriculture. This is the phenomenon which prevented the earth system to return to a new ice age. It is possible, but it seems to me at least unlikely that a system can be stabilized by two opposite strong perturbations (the other one is the effect of the Milankovitch oscillations)
6. There is no obvious correlation of this long term trend with what we know of the Sun’s output. There has been a lot of speculation that the past temperature oscillations have been related to variations of the Sun’s output — the “Maunder Minimum” is an example of that. But if these variations have an effect, it is truly minimal. It can only be within the oscillations of the curve which don’t exceed a few tenths of degree.
7. The increase in temperatures during the past 50 years or so has been simply stunning. In a sense, these sudden temperature changes are not unusual in the earth’s history (the problem for biological species is to survive them). But, in this case, it is so fast that it has probably no equals in the whole geological history of the planet. It is a disaster ongoing. Will civilization survive? Will humankind survive? Will anything alive today survive? Who can say?
But don’t worry: we all know that this paper is part of the great conspiracy of the 97% of the world’s climate scientists. Fortunately, they have been debunked by a group of brave internet trolls, helped by friendly fossil fuel lobbyists.

 Cassandra’s legacy by Ugo Bardi 



42 Comments on "How Big a Disaster Can Climate Change Be?"

  1. Davy on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 7:56 am 

    Most of you have never farmed. I have done both industrial AG around 2000 and now permaculture. I can tell you climate change does matter to food production. Don’t be fooled by fools like neder who claim good things are coming from a warming world.

    The issues is less warming than instability. When I farmed 1000 corn and soy acres in 2000 it was the droughts and floods that hurt. It was the cold snaps or heat waves that made my ass pucker. We have too many people as it is and we will surely going to have lower food productivity due to climate irregularities.

    If only climate was the only problem. We also have development, soil erosion, and water scarcity. The rising sea levels are less of a concern to me than a wild weather period lasting multiple years. 2017 was a year of wild weather. Just imagine 2017 on steroids.

  2. Estamos Jodidos on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 8:25 am 

    Yesterday, 27 F. above average daytime temperature for February 2. No snow pack, like 4% of normal. Alfalfa for cow hay needs water and here water comes from irrigation. We likely will have no water. Last summer, our little town of 125 ran out of water for a week. It will be interesting to see how this summer plays out. One other thing, because of high elevation, we normally sleep with a quilt during the summertime. Last summer we needed a fan in the window every night. I think we’re screwed, and I don’t think it’s going to take long to be really screwed.

  3. Sissyfuss on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 9:33 am 

    The Keeling Curve and the number of humans are going up together. One of them will be going down eventually to be followed by the other. I leave it to you to reason out the sequence.

  4. deadly on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 11:09 am 

    97 percent climate consensus fake news

    “Meteorologists examine causes of weather change every day. Climate is the long-term change in weather. If a scientist does not understand how weather changes, he wont understand how climate changes. Meteorologists are the scientists most likely to understand if unusual weather extremes are weather or climate change. Thus they have been polled every year about climate change.
    However most don’t respond. Basically three fourths of weather scientists choose NOT to get entangled in a political, non-scientific debate. In 2015 the response rate was 22%, just 32% in 2016 and in 2017 just 22%. And as true for most skeptics, most agreed climate change is happening. However the question is: What is the cause of that change?
    Of 2017’s respondents, only 15% thought climate change was entirely due to humans, while 34% thought 60 to 80% could be attributed to human activity. However the survey did not separate human contributions to climate change from urbanization, deforestation, loss of wetlands or CO2 .
    One fifth, or 21% thought changes were mostly or entirely natural while 8% admitted they just didn’t know.”

    Keeling Curve

    407.72 ppm of CO2

  5. tahoe1780 on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 1:03 pm 

    https://youtu.be/qYlRk377Wq0

  6. Anonymouse1 on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 1:06 pm 

    The exceptionalist has extensive experience in FAKE, ie make-believe farming. Not sure how you would know anything about climate exceptionalist, since you seldom it experience it directly. Sitting on your ass in your bayou shack, raging at mak, China and anything filipino, leaves you little time to go to that magical place called ‘outside’.

    Unless you count trips to your outhouse? Ok, maybe you do go ‘outside’. (At least once a day anyhow).

    Nice try though, dumbass.

  7. dave thompson on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 1:20 pm 

    Lets all keep our eyes on the arctic sea ice death spiral. When the ice goes away, even when it is only for a couple of weeks in September, the climate will go haywire. The ability to grow food at scale will be lost. Humans will go extinct. All in a couple of years. Good Luck.

  8. MrBill44 on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 1:45 pm 

    Davy, “The issues is less warming than instability”: I would agree with you on this one. My kids farm about 4,000 acres of field corn, beans and seed corn. Seems the instability is resulting in more extremes. Having crop adjuster out a lot more than years ago.

  9. onlooker on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 1:49 pm 

    Climate change has the potential to not only lay low our civilization but even cause our Extinction.

  10. Davy on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 2:05 pm 

    Wow, mousie, did I spank you that bad yesterday! Are you still at a loss of words on the basics of Canadian tar sands? I am glad it finally sunk in. I am still waiting for a contribution. You have said nothing intelligent in months. Are you feeling uninspired? Stalking and pricking Americans doesn’t count.

    Btw, I am cutting wood as we speak. If I decided to not do much that is ok. I did something with my life and have something to show for it. I farm becuase I like it. You on the other hand are a young guy doing nothing. You have nothing and likely will be nothing. A basement dweller I am sure. I have no respect for somebody wasting space without a contribution. Say something you runt of a human.

  11. Kenz300 on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 2:10 pm 

    Climate Change is real. We all need to make energy efficiency a bigger part of our decisions on housing and transportation.

  12. dave thompson on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 2:23 pm 

    Kenz read Tim Garrett’s work. “Industrial Civilization is a heat engine.”

  13. Anonymouse1 on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 2:29 pm 

    Keep me out of your sick, homo-erotic fantasies dumbass. Just because you and your husband cloggen-zimmer are into that, doesn’t mean anyone else here is. If you feel the need to spank your monkey, you can do what always do, shamble off to your goat pen. If that fails to ‘do it’ for you, you can always give cloggen-fraud a call. I’m certain hell be more than happy to ‘talk’ spanking with you.

    Dumbass.

  14. MASTERMIND on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 3:03 pm 

    The End of the Oil Age is Imminent

    Recently, the HSBC oil report stated that 80% of conventional oil fields were declining at a rate of 5-7% per year. This means that there will be an oil shortage of ~30 million barrels per day by 2030 and ~40 million barrels per day by 2040.
    http://www.scribd.com/document/367688629/HSBC-Peak-Oil-Report-2017

    What is mentioned far less often is that annual oil discoveries have lagged annual production since the 1980s.
    https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt

    Now, this problem has nothing to do with the recent decline in the oil price, which started in 2014. This has been an on-going problem for the past 30 years. Now, the IEA is predicting oil shortages by ~2020 due to declining exploration.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-says-global-oil-discoveries-at-record-low-in-2016-1493244000

    Here, the IEA blames this problem on the low oil price. But, this problem started in the 1980s. The problem is geological: we are running out of conventional cheap oil. Shale and tar sands are not the answer, either. Those resources are far too expensive, compared to conventional oil, because the global economy is based on cheap conventional oil. Expensive oil is not a replacement for cheap oil.

    Based upon the HSBC report and the IEA, the End of Oil Age will start around ~2020: there will be a dramatic economic depression due to exhaustion of cheap oil. This will cause a global economic collapse.

  15. Mad Kat on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 5:48 pm 

    dave, you see Davy for what he is. An arrogant bully who has about as much experience farming as Bill Gates. If you note how often and when he is on here ranting, it doesn’t leave much time to be actually experiencing nature … other than his trips to the outhouse. lol

  16. Mad Kat on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 5:51 pm 

    Oops! Sorry dave, I was reading Anon’s comment when I typed in your name by mistake. I need another coffee. lol

  17. Davy on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 6:29 pm 

    Billy, funny how you need people to help you across the street. You can’t fight your own battles. You are afraid to meet me one on one because you get spanked. Billy, you are the definition of arrogant. You brag about yourself and cut others down. BTW, when are you moving to the fantasy farm? We are going on year 6 of your fantasy farm talk.

  18. MASTERMIND on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 6:49 pm 

    Madkat has a micro penis and premature ejaculation, thus the hate and never ending compensating.

  19. MASTERMIND on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 8:35 pm 

    Study: Limits to Growth was Right. Research Shows We’re Nearing Global Collapse (Turner, 2014)

    Pg 14,
    The close alignment between the LTG BAU scenario and observed developments over the last four decades, as well as the correspondence in the underlying dynamics described above, portend of potential
    global collapse. Although the general commentary on the LTG describes collapse occurring sometime mid-century (and the LTG authors stressed not interpreting the time scale too precisely), the BAU scenario implies that a relatively rapid fall in economic conditions and the population
    could be imminent. Indeed, other aspects of oil supply constraints explored in the following, indicate that the ongoing economic downturn of the GFC may be representative of an imminent BAU style collapse.

    http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf

  20. MASTERMIND on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 8:41 pm 

    World Scientists “Warning to Humanity” Signed by 15,000 Scientists from 184 Countries Including the Majority of all Nobel Prize Winners
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171113111127.htm

    Scientific American: Apocalypse Soon: Has Civilization Passed the Environmental Point of No Return?
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/apocalypse-soon-has-civilization-passed-the-environmental-point-of-no-return/

    NASA Study: Industrial Civilization is Headed for Irreversible Collapse (Motesharrei, 2014)
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615

    The Royal Society: Study, Now for the First Time A Global Collapse Appears Likely (Ehrlich, 2013)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3574335/

    Study: Limits to Growth was Right. Research Shows We’re Nearing Global Collapse (Turner, 2014)
    http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf

    Study: Financial System Supply-Chain Cross-Contagion: in Global Systemic Collapse (Korowicz, 2012)
    http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf

  21. MASTERMIND on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 9:40 pm 

    In a world of limited resources life is a zero sum game, debate over the humanity of man is not carried out on empty stomachs.

  22. Mad Kat on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 10:23 pm 

    We are closer to a nuclear war than at any time in my 73 years.

    “The Nuclear Posture Review: The World Will Not Survive the American Neoconservatives’ Doctrine of US World Hegemony”

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/02/02/nuclear-posture-review/

    Climate change and peak oil are the least of our worries. Duck & Cover!

  23. DerHundistlos on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 10:40 pm 

    It finally happened on January 23, 2018. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service declared the eastern puma officially extinct, removing it from the Federal List of Endangered and Threatened Wildlife.

    And a big thanks to all you Republicons for your unwavering efforts to repeal and relegate to the trash bin of history the job-killing Endangered Species Act. Fortunately, Republicons have vowed to eliminate the act prior to the end of President Dump’s first term.

    I have no doubt there’s a special place in the afterworld reserved for you. I can’t think of more deserving people.

    God bless you and God bless the USA.

    Fuckfaces.

  24. MASTERMIND on Sat, 3rd Feb 2018 11:59 pm 

    Madkat

    What would be the point to start a nuclear war if the world is going to come to an end due to peak oil soon anyways? It would just increase world demand for oil and it would bring on the oil supply shortages faster! Enough with the scare mongering of Paul “Nutter” Craig Roberts! Just look at his mug on his profile! He is crazy!

  25. Cloggie on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 12:19 am 

    The Nuclear Posture Review: The World Will Not Surive the American Neoconservatives’ Doctrine of US World Hegemony

    Paul Craig Roberts

    Henry Ford: “The International Neocon”, the world’s foremost problem.

    Voltaire: “Neocons are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race.”

    I agree with madkat that this is currently the most pressing problem, not this peak oil or climate thingy.

    Obviously, millimind=apneaman doesn’t like it that his tribe is attacked by one of the last honest men in America, Paul Craig Roberts.

    The Russian and Chinese leadership know precisely who is running America. And this is the reason why the coming downfall of the US vempire aka the West will not be as peaceful as that of the USSR. Expect WW3, the downfall of the 1968 multicult vassal regimes in Europe, CW2 and subsequent the breakup of the United States.

  26. MASTERMIND on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 12:28 am 

    What It’s Like to Learn You’re Going to Die

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/the-existential-slap/544790/?utm_source=atltw

  27. MASTERMIND on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 12:57 am 

    Clogg

    If your hate could be turned into electricity it would light up the entire world!

  28. Mad Kat on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 12:58 am 

    Cloggie, that ‘breakup’ seems likely, but, only if the war does not turn nuclear. If it does, and that too is most likely, I doubt that there would be anything left of the US that the Russians/Chinese would want after all the cities are glassed over and there is nothing living in most of the country. Every other country would be busy keeping their own governments/people alive. I would not expect any nukes to fall on the Ps but nuclear winter and widespread fallout would get most of the world to some degree.

    I hope to live another decade or two so I can watch the events unfold. I was one year old when Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened. I grew up in the ‘Duck and Cover’ US. I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. I had hoped that TPTB would continue to have intelligence and common sense, but both are now missing in the US. Perhaps the last human will die of cancer before 2030. We shall see.

  29. Cloggie on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 2:32 am 

    Clogg

    If your hate could be turned into electricity it would light up the entire world!

    But how can you say that Apneaman? I love Europe, honest!

  30. Mad Kat on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 2:45 am 

    Hahaha… Cloggie, anyone who doesn’t support the immoral, corrupt, plundering, child murdering, war mongering US is a “hater” in the eyes of muddymind and Davy. They are the kind of ‘patriot’ that will go down with the USS Debt, still waving the bloody, shredded, meaningless US flag in their ignorance and greed. You cannot win a debate with them unless you lower yourself to their deluded level. I took a pass and will watch them self-destruct along with their 3rd world US.

  31. Cloggie on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 3:01 am 

    I would not expect any nukes to fall on the Ps but nuclear winter and widespread fallout would get most of the world to some degree.

    I don’t think that nukes are going to be used. As I have said before, if a government of country A uses nukes against a country B that has nukes as well (US/Russia/China/France), retribution will follow. The consequence is that both regimes will lose control over their own countries, because absolute chaos will break out, with all city dwellers trying to flee the big cities to escape annihilation. They won’t use nukes, probably.

    Regarding the Philippines… look Bill, I have zero ill will against you and I hope you survive, but the Ps are about the last place you want to be in case of a US-Chinese conflict. The Ps were a Spanish colony for four centuries until in 1898 the US took over from Spain. When the US managed to provoke Japan into the war by imposing a 100% oil boycott against Japan, making the attack against Pearl Harbor inevitable, all intentional, the Japanese invaded and occupied the Ps. They had to as they could not afford to have a US bridgehead between the Dutch East Indies (source of oil) and Japan.

    This is how US POWs looked like in the Philippines in 1942, not too impressive:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/20/02/2AAF116000000578-3167688-image-a-4_1437354888438.jpg

    Won’t be different with the Chinese. They cannot afford to leave the Ps to the US when the Chinese decide to throw the Americans out of the South-China Sea and declare it a demilitarized zone (for the US that is). Don’t expect your Philippine neighbors to continue to be nice to you if they notice that mighty-whitey can be defeated after all.

    I speak from (national) experience. When the Japanese invaded the Dutch East-Indies, the locals witnessed scenes like these:

    https://www.nederlandsekrijgsmacht.nl/images/LeonardGSiffleet.jpg

    That was very bad for Dutch prestige. The locals had thought that the Dutch were invincible with their cars, planes, trains and aircraft carriers. And now all of a sudden “fellow Asians”, one head smaller than the Dutch, humiliated the colonial overlord. When the Japanese were defeated in the end, the Indonesians nevertheless were inspired by the actions of the Asian Japanese, and 200,000 Indonesians and 5,000 Dutch killed later…

    https://tinyurl.com/y7eebols

    …the independent republic of Indonesia was announced in 1949, spearheaded by an Indonesian elite, educated at Dutch colonial institutions.

    If I were you I would ensure that you keep relations with your kids warm, so you can spend your last years in a rocking chair, somewhere in the Heartland-USA, in case things will play out like I think they will.

  32. MASTERMIND on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 3:23 am 

    Madkat what you don’t understand about the US is in a world of limited resources life is a zero sum game…And your crusade against the US is simply self serving. It makes you feel like a good person for pointing your fingers at us! Kick rocks old man!

  33. Mad Kat on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 4:21 am 

    Cloggie, I would not be so sure nukes will not be used. The US, pushed into a corner with no options but to surrender and become a 3rd world country, will likely use nukes if they can. I would not be surprised if they used them in Europe first, if it is a ground war. They have already used them in Japan, at a time and place that they was not needed. What if it is in a time and place where they believe they are needed? We can only hope that the US economy crashes and a revolution takes hold there that forces the troops home before a war can start.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-nuclear-posture-review-the-world-will-not-survive-the-american-neoconservatives-doctrine-of-us-world-hegemony/5628178

    As for my place of abode. I will stay here thanks. I see the US in a worse situation than the Ps can ever be. A police state already. A dying economy. A dying population from drugs, debt, suicide and just plain sloth. A country hated by most of the world.
    I prefer sitting on the beach and watching the sun come up over the Pacific. The land of eternal summer. I will not freeze to death, nor die of thirst or hunger. I need no income here. If the Ps goes down, the US will already be gone. I do not share your rosy picture of Europe’s future. IF there is a world war, I see it sacrificed first. I guess we will have to wait and see.

  34. Davy on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 4:54 am 

    “I doubt that there would be anything left of the US that the Russians/Chinese would want after all the cities are glassed over and there is nothing living in most of the country.”

    This should be fun billy is talking military. Billy have you ever heard of MAD?

  35. Davy on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 4:58 am 

    “I would not expect any nukes to fall on the Ps but nuclear winter and widespread fallout would get most of the world to some degree.”

    Folks, billy has family in the US but he talk about the NUK destruction of the US with a twinkle in his eye then he says he loves his family. What a loser. Billy, you are going to starve there in the P’s with or without a NUK winter. Once the global system breaks down the P’s cannot feed itself. Old geezers like you are the first to be toast.

  36. Davy on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 5:04 am 

    “Hahaha… Cloggie, anyone who doesn’t support the immoral, corrupt, plundering, child murdering, war mongering US is a “hater” in the eyes of muddymind and Davy. “
    Sorry, billy, the real reason I hound you is because you are an unbalanced extremist anti-American. This is mostly an American critical site where we talk about American problems not a place for people like you and neder to peddle your American hate agendas. You and neder are doing all of us a disservice in this pursuit of talking about problems. You two and a few others have turned this site into an extremist place instead of a intellectual place. I am perfectly willing to play this game until you are gone. Your extremist disrespectful agenda peddling is against me so I have the right of self-defense. You are just a scumbag extremist anti-American who has little intellectual substance.

  37. Davy on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 5:07 am 

    “I prefer sitting on the beach and watching the sun come up over the Pacific.”

    Sounds like we know what you are going to be doing and that is not the farming you talk about. All you are about billy is sitting on your ass.

  38. Cloggie on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 5:48 am 

    Why shouldn’t he after a life-long working and raising a family. Well-deserved.

  39. Davy on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 6:17 am 

    I have no problem with billy sitting on the beach. What I don’t like is when the piece of shit is saying how hard he is working at prepping, farming, and construction when the liar is doing nothing but sitting on his ass in a cheap condo in Manila. He is in this cheap condo in Manila attacking others and bragging about himself. This parroting has gone on for 5 going on 6 years. It is a matter of honesty and integrity. Billy is a lie and so many are fooled by his lies.

  40. Mad Kat on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 6:17 am 

    Cloggie, The beach is about 15 minutes from the farm by bicycle. As Davy has many hours to spew his bullshit on here and yet claims to be a big time farmer in Missouri. Maybe he should look in the mirror. Nah! He never does that. It is too scary and real. It would wreck his delusions.

    I don’t have to be on the farm 24/7/365. The plants do not need my help to grow. The chickens are quite happy free range. A farm that doesn’t need to make a market crop, only subsistence, can be very easy.

    We do not need to pay huge taxes every year to TPTB. That can easily come out of other income because they are a small fraction of those in the US. Maybe $200 to $300 per year. Pocket change. And, when the SHTF, odds are taxes will not be collected at all. The farm property owners had not paid taxes on the land (a grant from the government) for over 30 years. Which is why it took some time to find out what was owed and to get legal title and pay all of ~P18,500 (~$370) in back taxes.

    Life is much simpler here. Laid back and easy. I will also be able to sit on the porch, on the farm, and watch the sun set over the mountains. I guess he will rant about that also, but I will not read it. I can ignore the braying of a jackass. lol

  41. Davy on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 6:36 am 

    “Davy has many hours to spew his bullshit on here and yet claims to be a big time farmer in Missouri.”
    Davy is a small time permaculture farmer and prepper in Missouri. I can be here often because I can. Billy has to be at his desk in his cheap condo. I have an IPhone. When I take breaks I can be here. In the morning, at lunch, and in the evening I can be here on my laptop. Those of you who are my enemies hate this because I can call you out immediately. I don’t watch TV so I can focus on my agenda of doom and prep and calling out lying anti-Americans here. My work is often times repetitive and boring but adds up to something of value. My IPhone break anywhere on the farm provide me with great enjoyment. I am here also because it is mental exercise. I do physical workouts and mental ones.

    “I don’t have to be on the farm 24/7/365. The plants do not need my help to grow. The chickens are quite happy free range. A farm that doesn’t need to make a market crop, only subsistence, can be very easy.”
    BS, any farming is hard work and to get good at it you have to be there working hard at it. It wears me out but that is the way it always has been. Billy is a fake farmer and prepper living in a chap condo above 20MIL people. He is all talk and no walk.

    “We do not need to pay huge taxes every year”
    What a wack job. What do taxes have to do with farming a farm? That goes to show how little the wacko knows about farming. The only tax on the farm itself is property tax which are small. Actually the farming I am doing is a nice tax right off. It means I can invest in the farm and get a nice reduction on my taxes. Billy would know that because he has zero business and financial understanding. He is a binary buffoon pushing an agenda of US people bad and “me” good. Perma culture farming does not provide a living in many cases but it is a great activity to be involved in along with other activities. People around here work and farm. Permaculture does work for some to make a living at it but it is still marginal because of the way the status quo is set up.

    “Life is much simpler here. Laid back and easy. I will also be able to sit on the porch, on the farm, and watch the sun set over the mountains.”
    More BS out of the guy who is tied to a social security check that he also dismisses as not needed. So I am wondering how the dumbass would be doing with no money? You don’t do subsistence farming laying on the beach. What a crock of shit out of the board lunatic.

    “I guess he will rant about that also, but I will not read it. I can ignore the braying of a jackass. Lol”
    I expose your lies daily billy and I know you read me. You read everything I say and try to say you don’t. You are one big joke.

  42. Cloggie on Sun, 4th Feb 2018 9:35 am 

    Ethiopia is building 8000 cities due to population explosion.

    http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/aethiopien-baut-8000-neue-staedte-a-1188777.html

    Population Ethiopia:

    1950 – 20 million
    2018 – 100+ million and growing ever faster

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