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A Matter of Degree

Enviroment
Did we really imagine people would feel threatened by the number 2?
USAnians are a very strange lot, as Alexis de Tocqueville observed on his road trip with Gustave de Baumont in 1831. The Bible-thumping, coon-skinned, populist utopians fascinated him. Tocqueville blithely compared the young country’s despotic democratic government, then hip-deep in the ethnic cleansing of indigenous peoples, to a parent protective of “perpetual children.”
Anticipating Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent by 157 years, Tocqueville observed that the US brand of fervent fascism doesn’t try to break wills but rather bends them, allowing government to preside over people like “a flock of timid animals.”
These timid animals nonetheless hunted the remnant bands of the First Nations like a wolf pack. Adult male scalps fetched about $100 in silver during Tocqueville’s visit, and about half that for women and children. Such hefty sums attracted those given to that particular skill-set and temperament.
Tocqueville said that USAnians with the most education and intelligence were left with two choices. They could join limited intellectual circles to explore the weighty and complex problems facing society, or they could use their superior talents to amass vast fortunes in the private sector (such as becoming scalpers). Tocqueville said that he did not know of any country where there was “less independence of mind, and true freedom of discussion, than in America.” [Joshua Kaplan “Political Theory: The Classic Texts and their Continuing Relevance,” The Modern Scholar. 14 lectures (2005).]
When will these perpetual children come to grips with climate change? Perhaps it will come sifting through the ashes of their million-dollar mortgaged houses and lifetimes of keepsakes, or mucking through what is left of those after a biblical flood goes where none has gone before — perhaps then? Or perhaps, as good children, they will just go back to the Matrix and await the next FEMA check.

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill — the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill — you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I’m offering is the truth. Nothing more.

— Morphius, The Matrix (1999)
It occurs to us that one of the flaws in climate messaging has to do with numbers. As Bill McKibben famously told Rolling Stone, “And as far as I know, there’s never been a big political campaign built around a scientific data point.” News flash: there still hasn’t. McKibben tried to make that number be 350, as in the parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, “above which we can’t have a planet similar to the one on which civilization developed or to which life on earth is adapted.”
Unfortunately, by the time he said that, consumer culture had already blown through 350. Oops. That barrier fell in 1990, about the same time he wrote The End of History and we wrote Climate In Crisis. Today we are passing through 410, and moving up that sooty scale nearly twice as fast as we were in 1990.
It is hard to kick for a goal when the goal is behind you.
1975: The year the hockey stick met the blade.

In the UN climate conferences a new number is used — the number 2. That is a nice round number. At first it seems very non-threatening. It refers to an IPCC report’s consensus conclusion that exceeding a 2-degree Celsius increase in average global temperature starting from the 1940 baseline would be “dangerous” and should be avoided. Since the Paris Agreement in 2015, the focus has shifted briefly to the more ambitious goal of limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees, if possible.

 

Regrettably that will not be possible. We are already a full degree above baseline and given the lag time between emissions and warming effect, 1.5 degrees is already in the rear-view and we are now passing 2.
Think of it like you are approaching an intersection in your car and the traffic light turns from green to yellow. You could brake or accelerate to make it through. You decide to step on the gas. Now you are committed. Even if you change your mind and suddenly hit the brakes you won’t stop the car before it is into the crossing, so the only way now is to keep going. We are in that pattern with 2 degrees. We hit the gas a few years ago and there is no stopping now. We will get to 2 degrees, even if nuclear war ended civilization tomorrow.
The authors of a Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences paper, “Well below 2 °C:
Mitigation strategies for avoiding dangerous to catastrophic climate changes,” Yangyang Xu of Texas A&M and Veerabhadran Ramanathan of Scripps, propose we classify any warming beyond 3 degrees as “catastrophic,” and beyond 5 degrees as “unknown.”
Xu and Ramanathan calculate a 50 percent probability that surface warming will catch up with legacy emissions enough to cross the dangerous threshold by mid-century, and a 5 percent probability of hitting 3 degrees by then. Would you get on an airplane if you thought there was a 5 percent chance that it was going to crash?
On present trajectory, the PNAS paper gives 50–50 odds we will be in catastrophic territory by the end of the century, and a 5 percent probability of being fully in the unknown. Recall for a moment we are not even to the “dangerous” level yet. If you live in Houston, San Juan, Santa Rosa, or Santa Claus’s North Pole workshop, baby you ain’t seen nothing yet.
A majority of USAnians, according a recent Yale survey, don’t see the climate issue as all that important. They are evenly divided on whether it will harm some places within the United States, but only 40% think they personally will be impacted.
Climate scientist Michael Mann, author of the famous “hockey stick” image some 30 years ago, complains that science literacy is too low in the US for most citizens to even gauge the danger. Long true of politicians and reporters, today even those who should know better — like weathermen and school teachers — are criminally ignorant. Mann says:

People will often ask, ‘What’s the tipping point?’ or ‘How much warming before we hit the tipping point?’ The answer is there is no one tipping point. That’s not how it works. Its not binary. We don’t go off a cliff. A much better analogy is we’re walking out onto a minefield. The farther we walk out into that minefield the greater likelihood we set off the explosives.

 

We are inclined now to conclude the problem really is with the numbers. Did we really imagine people would feel threatened by the number 2? Especially the generations raised on Sesame Street?
As we wrote 28 years ago in Climate in Crisis, in an average day most people on the planet experience more than a 2 degree change in temperature in the first few hours after the sun rises or sets — it is not scary to us. We often experience a change in temperature of more than 2 degrees as we enter or leave a modern office building or bank. How then can most people relate to 2 degrees, or 6 degrees, as an existential threat? The difference is between the global average and your personal skin, but we can relate to our skin, not to global averages.

To get a one degree increase, you have to heat a lot of ocean water and a lot of atmosphere. It took 18,000 years for the Earth to warm 9 degrees Fahrenheit (5 degrees Celsius) from the last Ice Age to the present, about one half degree every thousand years. One degree in a single century is a substantially faster rate of warming, 20 times faster than the average.

***

At the end of the 21st century the Earth may be warmer than it is now by as much as another 9 degrees (5°C). That would be warmer than it has been in 1,000,000 years.

— Climate in Crisis: The Greenhouse Effect and What We Can Do

 

 Fires, floods, hurricanes and submerged cities are more likely to activate dormant flight or fight responses deep in our reptilian brains. There must, at some point, come recognition of the soup we are slowly marinating in.
Xu and Ramanathan recommend a “three-lever strategy” to limit warming: reducing carbon dioxide emissions to a net of zero; reducing emissions of short-lived but potent “super pollutants” such as methane and hydrofluorocarbons; and extracting and sequestering greenhouse gases from the air.

Ultimately, we must thin the CO2 greenhouse blanket by removing the CO2 that is already in the atmosphere. Given the near-term risk of exceeding the dangerous to catastrophic thresholds, the timing for pulling these levers is a crucial issue. Ideally, these levers should be pulled immediately by 2020.

To limit warming to 2 degrees, we will need drawdown by some 1 trillion tons of CO2 equivalents before 2100 and bend the warming curve to a cooling trend. As we have written here, geoengineering can’t do that, but Natural Climate Solutions can.
If that doesn’t happen soon, it may be too late to avoid catastrophe. Or whatever comes after that.
peak surfer –  The Great Change by Albert Bates 


145 Comments on "A Matter of Degree"

  1. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:04 am 

    Davy, if you didn’t know, there is a HUGE time difference between the US and the Ps. I am not online all the time and do not go back and look at comments that were posted unless it is in the comments box at the bottom right of the page. I do not read most of your shit because it disappears from the page by the time I come online the next day. It is not important.

  2. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:14 am 

    Shut up, mad kat, the world is homogenized and your arguments of a huge difference are a fantasy. You live in the westernized part of Manila called Makati. You live and brush elbows with the bankers and business men. You brag about how nice your condo is complete with a Starbucks nearby. You then rant and rave about how wonderful the 3rd world is and how you have your hand on the heartbeat of 3rd world Asia. You talk about a primitive jungle farm complete with cobras that you are never at. You talk about how much you know about farming and construction but this is all in your head because you rarely leave the condo. You hang out with your Filipino boyfriend doing whatever boyfriends do at your age. DISGUTING

  3. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:17 am 

    “A Bad Moon is rising: America is polarized at home; unitive government has splintered into departments at odds with each other, and with officials leaking on each other; with fake news abounding; with Congress gridlocked, and with American social and political fabric tearing apart. Against this background – can a president, concerned that he might be removed from office, and beset still by hitherto hidden ‘ruling interests’ now dragged out from the shadows into the public glare for their tawdry schemes, resist the march toward war – the original question posed by Paul Craig Roberts?

    Either a war in North Korea (“the greatest threat facing America”, McMaster says), or an aggressive military show of force against ‘bad actor’ Iran – and in support of a failing Saudi Crown Prince. Is this the diversion that either a now exposed and vulnerable Deep State, and a hobbled President, might welcome as the chance to stand erect in public esteem? Both might share a common interest in escaping domestic problems to mount a show of American strength and military power. Very possibly they might, but oddly, the US military have chosen to leave American soldiers hostage and isolated in both cases: 30,000 US forces in the DMZ between the Koreas, and in smaller outposts in north-eastern Syria and in Iraq. This may turn out badly. Remember Beirut in 1983.”

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/18/bad-moon-trouble-rising.html

    Unless mad dog America is put down, there will be war. Nuclear war. Both Iran and N.Korea have nuclear friends. Russia and China. Insanity rules in DC and the serfs are distracted by fluff and drugs 24/7/365.

  4. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:23 am 

    “I’ll say it again. “MM and Davy want the rest of the world to suffer worse than they will. They do not recognize that others can be prepared for the coming events. Or, that there ARE better places to be living than in the US. Reality is going to knock them to their knees when the SHTF.”

    Got any references? Give me a previous comment that says these things. I never say I have it better. This world is one of comparative advantage and disadvantage. It is not the world according to mad kat that is good “FOR ME MAD KAT” and bad for others “MAINLY AMERICANS BUT REALLY ANY WESTERNER”.

    “They are frustrated that they cannot bully the others on here. All they can do is keep proving their immaturity and ignorance by trying to put down others with words. Words do not hurt, guys, unless you are an American snowflake like yourselves.”

    Shut up again, mad kat, I have made an effort to post less over the past two days to give others a chance to comment. I am trying to show respect for others in spite of the fact I need to neuter and moderate your lies that attempt to make this board an extremist magnet. If others see the kind of hatred you puke and they see you get away with it then they will do it. There are so many extremist like you and grehg full of hate and anger in the world today. They then come to this board and we can’t talk about these issues in a scientific and balanced way. “I’ll say it again” you are “DISGUSTING” I sure hope your 5 year old jungle fantasy farm becomes reality someday because it would be nice to you “GONE” and have a place to learn about life not experience hate and discontent daily.

  5. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:23 am 

    Davy, do you really think you can do anything to shut me up? Your frustration must be pushing your BP out of sight. I don’t bother to read most of your rants, even if they are on the page. All are pure bullshit, or should I say, goat droppings.

    Do you really believe that intelligent people take your rantings as truth? No matter how many times you say it? Your views of where I live and how, are all pure fiction. You have never been to Asia. I have been to the US for most of my 73 years. I know what it is like there in crazy-land. It was becoming obvious that it was crumbling before I left 10 years ago. It has only gotten much worse since. I do live in a nicer, safer, more free place than you do. So, rant all you want. It’s a free site. For now.

  6. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:26 am 

    Davy, sorry, but the farm has internet. I will be here as long as there is a PO site. Better stock up on those BP meds and maybe something stronger. LOL

  7. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:26 am 

    Folks, you don’t have to read any of mad kat’s post just go to Zero Hedge. He gets most of his anti-American news there. You will notice he never posts any negative Asian news from there. I have to do that to balance his extremism.

    “http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-18/bad-moon-rising-america”

  8. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:38 am 

    “Davy, do you really think you can do anything to shut me up?”
    Mad kat, I neuter everything you say. Your extremism is basically moderated. It is clear most every horribly bias comment you make I neuter. I have promised you until you moderate and show respect I will hound you until the end. You are an old man of 75 so likely your days are numbered without health insurance. Yea, you take that social security welfare but you won’t be able to get your Medicare welfare. LOL. You will die proud and they will put you in an unmarked grave in the slums of Manila where they put the other proud westerners who live in a fantasy world.

    “Your frustration must be pushing your BP out of sight. I don’t bother to read most of your rants, even if they are on the page. All are pure bullshit, or should I say, goat droppings.”
    “WTF are you doing now dumbass. Either you put me on your ignore list or you are reading everything I say. What a piece of work you are old man” BTW, I am in good health with no problems other than getting older.

    “Do you really believe that intelligent people take your rantings as truth? No matter how many times you say it? Your views of where I live and how, are all pure fiction. “
    So you are saying this is pure fiction. The density and population of a small Island which ensure your coming demise is fact:
    https://tinyurl.com/yc8ehp9q

    “You have never been to Asia.”
    I don’t want to go either. I will eventually have to go back to Europe to see my wife’s family even though I have told her for climate change reasons I don’t want to travel. The mountains of northern Italy are a paradise.

    “I have been to the US for most of my 73 years. I know what it is like there in crazy-land. It was becoming obvious that it was crumbling before I left 10 years ago. It has only gotten much worse since. I do live in a nicer, safer, more free place than you do. So, rant all you want. It’s a free site. For now.”
    You have been gone for 10 years and hidden in a secluded little condo above a mega population region of 20MIL on a small Island of Luzon of 53MIL. What a horrible place to be to survive a collapse of globalism. The place can maybe support 5MIL. BYE BYE mad kat

  9. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:40 am 

    “Davy, sorry, but the farm has internet. I will be here as long as there is a PO site. Better stock up on those BP meds and maybe something stronger. LOL”

    Well I caught you in a lie then. In the pat you have bragged about how rural and off the grid the place is. You know a true 3rd world paradise. I think you manufacture reality as needed. What a narcissistic self-promoter.

  10. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:47 am 

    LOL, tulip, I though you Euros had this grand military to rival any in the world.

    “NATO Crisis: Germany’s Entire Submarine Fleet Is Paralyzed”
    https://tinyurl.com/y77zvuy9

    “Germany’s operational readiness of its entire submarine fleet is dead in the water. Yes, you heard that correctly, Germany’s prized submarines are currently on maintenance calls or in desperate need of repairs. On October 15, Germany lost the last of its submarines when the Type 212a vessel was performing a diving maneuver off the Norweigan coast when it suffered a catastrophic blow to one of its four fins after the submarine struck a boulder. The submarine was quickly rendered not operational and had to be towed back to the German port of Kiel for maintenance work.”

    “Germany’s submarine fleet will be paralyzed for the next 4-5 months, which presents an enormous national security risk for the country. The submarines’ most fundamental feature is stealth, coupled with defense capabilities and surveillance, but as mentioned above, there is currently a major gap in Germany’s military defense at the moment, which we hope is not exploited by an adversary.”

  11. Hello on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 5:08 am 

    >>>which we hope is not exploited by an adversary

    the conquerors come on rafts accross the mediterenian, and on land thru kanackenland (turkey) or thru greece. Or are imported by flight from india or china or from one of the fuckingstans.

  12. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 5:15 am 

    This is how China is buying up the world and all the board anti-Americans bragging about it.

    “China Systemic Risk: Liquidity Problem Surfaces At HNA Group Less Than Two Weeks After Company’s Denial”
    https://tinyurl.com/y9fgynta

    “On December 8, we lamented how every few days we return to the subject of systemic risk in China related to its big four highly-indebted conglomerates, HNA, Anbang, Evergrande and Dalian Wanda. We also noted how our chief source of concern had become HNA, after it issued a bond with less than one year to maturity with the extortionately high coupon of 9%. And S&P downgraded HNA’s credit rating from b+ to b, five levels below investment grade. The reason for our continuing focus on HNA is its $28bn of short-term debt which matures before the end of next June, much of it accumulated during a $40 billion binge of acquisition-driven growth which saw it become a major shareholder in Deutsche Bank, Hilton Worldwide and others.”

  13. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 5:23 am 

    Yeap, Trump and his cabal are disgusting science deniers and plutocrats. Yea, but but, read this about the other side. DC, is rotten for more reasons than only Drump.

    “The RussiaGate Witch-Hunt—The Deep State’s “Insurance Policy”
    https://tinyurl.com/y9hgjmf5

    “There was a sinister plot to meddle in the 2016 election, after all. But it was not orchestrated from the Kremlin; it was an entirely homegrown affair conducted from the inner sanctums—the White House, DOJ, the Hoover Building and Langley—-of the Imperial City. Likewise, the perpetrators didn’t speak Russian or write in the Cyrillic script. In fact, they were lifetime beltway insiders occupying the highest positions of power in the US government. Here are the names and rank of the principal conspirators: John Brennan, CIA director; Susan Rice, National Security Advisor; Samantha Power, UN Ambassador; James Clapper, Director of National Intelligence; James Comey, FBI director; Andrew McCabe, Deputy FBI director; Sally Yates, deputy Attorney General, Bruce Ohr, associate deputy AG; Peter Strzok, deputy assistant director of FBI counterintelligence; Lisa Page, FBI lawyer; and countless other lessor and greater poobahs of Washington power, including President Obama himself. To a person, the participants in this illicit cabal shared the core trait that made Obama such a blight on the nation’s well-being. To wit, he never held an honest job outside the halls of government in his entire adult life; and as a careerist agent of the state and practitioner of its purported goods works, he exuded a sanctimonious disdain for everyday citizens who make their living along the capitalist highways and by-ways of America. The above cast of election-meddlers, of course, comes from the same mold. If Wikipedia is roughly correct, just these 10 named perpetrators have punched in about 300 years of post-graduate employment—and 260 of those years (87%) were on government payrolls or government contractor jobs. As to whether they shared Obama’s political class arrogance, Peter Strzok left nothing to the imagination in his now celebrated texts to his gal-pal, Lisa Page: “Just went to a southern Virginia Walmart. I could SMELL the Trump support……I LOATHE congress….And F Trump.”

  14. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 6:10 am 

    Davy, I NEVER said it was “off grid” I said many neighbors do not even have electric. That doesn’t mean that there is no electric, internet and even cable TV. It is all there IF you can afford it. Neighbors already come to the temp house to watch TV. We hooked it up for the workers to watch in their off hours when they are building the house. They will live on site during the week. We have electric and cable and the internet is tower, not land line. The 21st century is not absent in the Ps. Even in the countryside.

    Keep trying to make up a situation that does not exist here. You are failing, just like the US that tries to tell the rest of the world what it is like in their world. Pure propaganda bullshit.

    Delusions are you.

  15. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 6:15 am 

    Mad kat, then quit lying and bragging about your real situation. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t talk about how you will be fine when modernism goes because you will not have it but you actually live in modernism. Mad kat, when you were growing up didn’t your mom and dad explain to you what lies are?

  16. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 6:19 am 

    “I can’t imagine to live in the Philippines without the Internet. Luckily, Internet access via DSL is available on most islands in the Philippines, may it be over the good old Telephone Land line, direct cable or wireless (LTE) over the mobile towers.

    If you stay on a very remote island however, you may experience some speed problems, in fact you will have to test which provider (Globe or SMART) serves you best.”

    http://www.living-in-the-philippines.com/internet-dsl-philippines.shtml

    “If you stay in the Philippines, you don’t need to miss your favorite TV channels. Cable TV is available in most places and on most islands in the Philippines. If a cable in not available, you can still subscribe to the Cignal or Dream Satellite TV, which costs just a little more than a cable connection.

    The monthly charge for Cable TV is about 350,- Peso ($7). The channels you can receive depends on the provider at your place. In Bohol we now have 44 channels, including stuff like HBO, Cinemax, Star Movies, Disney Channel, National Geographics, Discovery Channel, CNN, Star Sports, ESPN, DWTV and of course, at least five or six different Filipino Channels.”

    And cellphones:

    “Filipinos truly love their cell phones. Even in a country dealing with rampant poverty, approximately 98% of the population has at least two cell phones per person. The Philippines is also known as the text capital of the world, with most Filipinos able to churn out texts at an astounding rate, often without even looking at the keyboards. All in all, the Philippines cranks out about two billion texts a day! ”

    http://myphilippinedreams.com/phones-philippines/

  17. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 6:34 am 

    Sure I can Davy. Both ways, meaning a lower, happier lifestyle with running water, flush toilets, fresh foods grown on site, and fresh air after the SHTF. I will enjoy the luxuries of the 21st century until then. I do not NEED the internet, cell phones, TV, etc. They are just temporary luxuries. Only land line phones existed in my youth. It was a much nicer time in America, all things considered. No internet, computers, cell phones, cable. They will be gone before I am. Wait and see.

    YOU are the one who cannot have it both ways. When the SHTF and the internet goes down, the ATMs go offline, the banks close and marshal law reigns, the US lifestyle will end. YOU will be in a third world country and unprepared for a life without.

    Little minds prefer to put down anyone that is their better. Yours is microscopic. Do you know what delusional means Davy? Look in the mirror. LOL

  18. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 6:47 am 

    BTW: How is China different than the US printing money to pay it’s bills? The US prints trillions every year, devaluing the dollar slowly into worthlessness. The rest of the world is trying to get away from the dollar ASAP. The US declared financial war on Russia and China (And several other smaller countries). Now both are working to destroy the USD as the world’s trade currency and will back the new money with gold.

    The US is going to go down first. Wait and see. China and Russia will pick up the pieces and move forward over the US’ crippled hulk. Be patient. 2018 is likely to be the year it becomes obvious to even the hard core American deniers.

  19. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 7:11 am 

    Your screwed Mad Kat. Not only are you an old man with no health insurance you are on an overpopulated Island with a guaranteed die off ahead. I didn’t read your whining drivel above because it is too pathetically unbalance. Anyone one can reality test you Mad Kat and see you have severe personality issues.

  20. MASTERMIND on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 7:53 am 

    Davy

    Madkat is extremely delusional. Anyone who believes the most powerful country in the world is going to collapse. But one of the least powerful countries like he lives in will survive the storm. Is not being rational or reasonable. He refuses to connect the dots. So be it….

  21. MASTERMIND on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 7:55 am 

    Davy Madkat’s president who remember he said he loves with all of his heart. Already admitted to stabbing a man to death before. And compared himself to Hitler. Just wait till the oil starts to run out. Madkat will have a new first round ticket on the cattle cart..Headed for some hard labor..Or he will be executed.

  22. peakyeast on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 10:03 am 

    Remarkable how Mak and Davy can continue endlessly running around in the same old rants at full speed.

    It has reached a level of ridiculousness where I feel sure it must be two bots battling.

    Surely it cant be humans????

  23. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 10:41 am 

    Peak, then say something to mad kat or something. I went two days with light posting. I avoided confrontation but what happens, mad kat plays the usual games of hate and discontent along with his boyfriend grehg. You like these guys otherwise you would see what is going on and make a comment to them in regards to your feeling of ridiculousness.

  24. GregT on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 12:10 pm 

    “We’re creating a world of dummies. Angry dummies who feel they have the right, the authority and the need not only to comment on everything, but to make sure their voice is heard above the rest, and to drag down any opposing views through personal attacks, loud repetition and confrontation.

    It’s a sad state of affairs, when a truly great American like Asimov, has the above to say about his own fellow countrymen. Even sadder, when the usual idiots are completely oblivious to what they are doing.

    You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. You are making America look bad.

  25. Boat on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 1:47 pm 

    Lol greggiet,

    Who invited your dumb ass to look at America in the first place.

  26. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 2:06 pm 

    boat, greggiet is the pure definition of hypocrite. He is a disgusting anti-American Canadian stalking prick who can’t fathom his complicity in most of what he whines about. DISGUSTING

  27. GregT on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 2:08 pm 

    Boat,

    “Who invited your dumb ass to look at America in the first place.”

    personal attacks, loud repetition and confrontation.

    You just did, by acting as a representative of America, in an open, unmoderated, international, internet discussion forum.

  28. GregT on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 2:12 pm 

    “He is a disgusting anti-American Canadian stalking prick who can’t fathom his complicity in most of what he whines about.”

    Asimov has you pegged, perfectly.

    personal attacks, loud repetition and confrontation.

    AKA; Name calling, childish rhetoric, and delusional accusations.

    Give it a rest already.

  29. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 2:34 pm 

    Give yourself an ulcer already you dumbass hypocrite. You are the very last one to point fingers. Boat pegged your stupidity,

  30. GregT on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 2:57 pm 

    “Give yourself an ulcer already you dumbass hypocrite. You are the very last one to point fingers. Boat pegged your stupidity,”

    Angry dummies who feel they have the right, the authority and the need not only to comment on everything, but to make sure their voice is heard above the rest, and to drag down any opposing views through personal attacks, loud repetition and confrontation.

    -Isaac Asimov

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov

  31. Davy on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 3:02 pm 

    You don’t even know what Asimov is talking about widdle g. If you did you would quit doing what he is talking about. You and Mad Kat are the primary reason this forum is in the gutter. Disgusting

  32. peakyeast on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 4:59 pm 

    I feel confirmed… 😀

    Looks like two or maybe three instances of microsofts chat-bot-turned-troll has gotten lose on peak-oil.

    https://www.rt.com/viral/337056-trolling-tay-microsoft-censored/

    lol…

  33. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 6:24 pm 

    Greg, they don’t seem to even realize their own ignorance. I can not comment on anything here, not even hinting at them, and they tear into me with a vengeance. It would be laughable if it were not so sad. Yes, there are three here who are perfect examples of what the US has degraded to.

    https://www.sott.net/article/313177-The-cult-of-ignorance-in-the-United-States-Anti-intellectualism-and-the-dumbing-down-of-America

    “There is a growing and disturbing trend of anti-intellectual elitism in American culture. It’s the dismissal of science, the arts, and humanities and their replacement by entertainment, self-righteousness, ignorance, and deliberate gullibility.”

    Self-righteous, ignorant, and deliberately gullible. The perfect American serf taking a knee to his masters.

  34. MASTERMIND on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 7:04 pm 

    Madkat weren’t you the one who said you love your president with all your heart? Talk about brainwashed eh? It’s always those who accuse others….

  35. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 7:37 pm 

    MuddyMind, “My” president is Trump. I don’t know who you are referring to.

  36. GregT on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 8:01 pm 

    “weren’t you the one who said you love your president with all your heart? Talk about brainwashed eh?”

    You’re all over the place MM.

    Do you not have anything even remotely intelligent to say? Or just more of the usual name calling, childish rhetoric, and delusional accusations.

  37. Makati1 on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 8:25 pm 

    MM: “Talk about brainwashed eh? It’s always those who accuse others….”

    Look in the mirror.

  38. MASTERMIND on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 9:14 pm 

    Madkat you said you love that Duetre president of your rat hole country…You said you loved him with all your heart…Now that is brainwashed..Did you wear Mormon underwear when you worked for the church? Did you also believe that god lived on a planet called Kolab? I cant believe you left your whole family of which you had many kids and many grand kids. To go bug out like a loony tune….

  39. MASTERMIND on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 9:19 pm 

    Gregt

    Shut the fuck up you old hick hillbilly. Nobody gives a fuck what you say. You never post anything interesting ever. No studies, No mainstream news articles to argue any points…Nothing but insults to others who visit this site..If you think you are so much smarter than me then prove it. Post some studies some science something that is meaningful..Don’t talk about it be about it…PROVE YOURSELF!

  40. GregT on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 11:05 pm 

    “Gregt

    Shut the fuck up you old hick hillbilly. Nobody gives a fuck what you say. You never post anything interesting ever. No studies, No mainstream news articles to argue any points…Nothing but insults to others who visit this site..If you think you are so much smarter than me then prove it. Post some studies some science something that is meaningful..Don’t talk about it be about it…PROVE YOURSELF!”

    Angry dummies who feel they have the right, the authority and the need not only to comment on everything, but to make sure their voice is heard above the rest, and to drag down any opposing views through personal attacks, loud repetition and confrontation.

    I have no need to prove anything to you MM. I am enjoying life to the max, and am doing quite fine. TYVM. 🙂

  41. GregT on Tue, 19th Dec 2017 11:16 pm 

    “Madkat you said you love that Duetre president of your rat hole country”

    Uhhh, Makati is an American citizen delusionalist. His rat hole country, as you prefer to call it, is the US of A.

  42. Makati1 on Wed, 20th Dec 2017 12:36 am 

    Greg, I can not imagine how frustrated MM and Davy must be. They keep acting like 3rd grade schoolyard bullies even after it has become a joke on them. Perfect proof of the quote you and I keep referring to.

    I love how they continue to show their immaturity…their inability to understand what anyone truly said, or that they had said the SAME thing, word for word, over and over, as if, saying it many times makes bullshit into fine steak.

    MM: “Shut the fuck up you old hick hillbilly.(Gregt)”
    Davy: “Shut up, mad kat.(Me) You dumbass hypocrite. (Gregt)”

    “…personal attacks, loud repetition and confrontation.”

    Brothers? Bots? Just purely stupid? I leave it to the reader. LOL

  43. GregT on Wed, 20th Dec 2017 1:39 am 

    They are beyond help now Makati. Their condition will only continue to deteriorate, just as I predicted that it would, several years ago.

  44. Davy on Wed, 20th Dec 2017 3:18 am 

    “They are beyond help now Makati. Their condition will only continue to deteriorate, just as I predicted that it would, several years ago.”

    Is that deterioration like this?

    “29. GregT on Thu, 23rd Nov 2017 3:47 am
    http://www.internationalman.com//articles/the-cardinal-sin-of-international-finance
    Good find Davy. I spoke with my psychiatrist, and she says that you rock. You are my new hero Davy. I don’t normally do gay sex, but she says that it would be worth it. Would you mind sucking my cock before I fuck you up the ass? Honey.”

  45. GregT on Wed, 20th Dec 2017 12:09 pm 

    “Is that deterioration like this?”

    Just toying with you pumpkin. I love it when you get all hot and bothered. 🙂

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