BUMP -Well said! - more should read the previous....

"We were so close to break-even and being cash-flow positive," said Think Chief Executive Richard Canny. "It doesn't seem right that the traditional auto companies are getting massive public money to stave off their decline, while newcomers in the electric-car space are being starved of capital."

Think's travails show how the financial crisis could delay new green technologies by starving innovative start-up companies of capital. They are also a sign of how venture capitalists, who have been pouring money into "clean technology" from wind power to biofuels, could start to see some of those bets go sour. Venture capitalists put $22.8 billion into green firms around the world in the past two years, according to market-research firm New Energy Finance in London.

A raft of upstart electric-car companies is trying to beat the established auto giants to market. The TH!NK city model, a zippy, stylish-looking minicar with zero carbon-dioxide emissions, sold for about $30,000 in Norway.

--the WSJ

A lot of these electric car companies are "vaporware." Investors are suckered in by the hype of a "green" car, but the economic model to manufacture, sell, maintain and charge the car is flawed. Without huge government subsidies these cars are so uneconomic that they will fail.

I'll bet the "Think" electric car company will be followed by other electric car companies going bankrupt as well.

coming soon in Denmark.

Dong energy? I wonder what the plug will look like. Sorry, someone had to say it.

I remain deeply skeptical of Better Place, which wants to charge consumers premium prices for a commodity (electricity) that they already get delivered to their homes at a metered rate.

I also have to wonder if these deals they are cutting with local governments and companies like DONG would stand up in court (sorry I had to say that.)

is the premium paid for the commodity or for the delivery method?

Can you elaborate on why those deals seem problematic to you?

I personally would not want to pay the monthly "subscription fee" for a Better Place vehicle. If I have an EV, I want to own it free and clear including the battery pack. Some people may go for this. How many, I don't know.

Return of the electric car



stuff

We've been using our electric car for about a year now. We've learned a lot. We don't need range. We go places that are further away in our regular gas car. We can use it for all the normal things we do in town. It is a real attention grabber. It's really fun.

Ours is the green one halfway down the page.

www.sunnev.com

I think that the NEV is the car of the future. When you want to go further, take the bus.

Totally cool Iver! Is that you in there??
Do you use solar charging? If so, how much running do you get out of it?

We get about 30 miles on a charge, and on a sunny day 3 more miles.

It's a great way to get around. It's like taking the boat out.

We have people cluster around us whenever we go anywhere.

It's bright green so it is a great way to get the message out.

How are going to get the message out that people are going to starve to death ? Carry an empty loaf of bread around ? People will never fully understand PO due to the worldwide economic collapse we are entering.

I really wasn't aiming at getting the message out that people are going to starve to death. I was just getting the green message out there. It only costs $200 a year for insurance and it costs less than a penny a mile to drive. I think that NEV's could become an affordable car for people with little money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZEAlJduRrs

As for the doomer message, I'll have to let someone else convey that message. We're having fun with the car, and that's the main message I want to convey right now.

I find this project very interesting and hope the best, but there's still a long way to go, and lots of mistakes could be made along the way...

DONG (Danish Oil & Natural Gas) is the largest energy utility company in Denmark. Relevant to this project, they generate most of the electricity used in Denmark and own the energy distribution infrastructure in and around the capital city (about 10,000 transformer stations, most of those with a 10 kV power point). From what I've heard, the idea is to build a network of 10 kV charging stations. According to a DONG employee I spoke with, the batteries for this project can be charged in just 15 minutes at such a charging station.

An interesting idea that they have at DONG is that the electric cars should be able to feed power back into the grid at peak demand if the car is plugged in. I suppose the idea has merit as the batteries would then serve as storage for energy produced when demand is lower (like, during the night). But, while I'm no expert on li-ion batteries, I can imagine this would shorten the lifespan of the batteries, and in that case I would certainly not want to own the batteries. And they really have to make sure that the batteries are not drawn down when the owner wants to drive home...

A thing that really dismays me, however, is that, according to the FAQ at Better Place's website, the first cars will be top-of-the-line sedans and SUVs... Luxury cars are the exception and not the rule here in Denmark, because of very high car purchase taxes (cars here cost about 3 times as much as they do in Germany or Sweden for example). And really, are luxury sedans or SUVs going to "save the world"? That's more denial than vision in my opinion... I understand that there's a need to get rid of the EV's image as a crappy car, but wouldn't a mid-range car do that just fine?