In another thread, I posted a definition for credulous.

The chemical definition of organic is Of, pertaining to or designating carbon compounds or containing carbon atoms with covalent bonds. All natural oils, whether derived from the bowels of the earth, a sperm whale or a colza plant, are therefore organic. The only oils that are not organic are not really true oils, silicone oils, which are synthesised by replacing the carbon atom by a silicon atom and interspersing an oxygen atom between them. I therefore state loud and clear that "inorganic oil" is an oxymoron even IF (and it's a VERY loud IF) it happened to be synthesised from inorganic materials as you pretend.

However, let's examine your hypothesis a lttle farther: you state that it requires a mixture of iron oxide (ferrosoferric, ferric or ferrous, hydrated or otherwise?), water and calcium carbonate. Now, you obviously have not thought of the origin of calcium carbonate. All the CaCO3 in the earth is formed as a part of the natural carbon cycle, whether it be direct sedimentary deposits (chalk, limestone etc.), metamorphosed (marble etc.) or dissolved and redeposited (as in stalactites). Guess what? it comes from millions upon billions upon trillions of marine organisms. Yes, from living creatures. So, where's your inorganic oil?

I rest my case.

RedPill,

As you seem to be a master of postwhoring with multiple threads all stating the same crass nonsense, why don't you just get out from under our feet by taking a cyanide pill?

If you wish to continue, one thread suffices, but please explain to us your scientific qualifications before you carry on.

Ah come on Devil, don't sugar coat it!

JackBob

Maybe Redpill can ride his hobbyhorse after the peak.
As we all know, the internet is where everyone that has an axe to grind builds a soapbox and cries in the wilderness. Those conspiracy theories make me tired. His friend Dave is quite a comedian.
It doesn't matter much the source of the oil, as long as it can be found, although my money is still on the western organically-sourced oil approach.

"crass nonsense"

What 50 years of peer reviewed research ? (that has actually been put to practical use in Russia & Vietnam - see below)

"but please explain to us your scientific qualifications before you carry on."

Same old, same old..............the facts speak for themselves - how about Dr. Thomas Gold ? :

http://people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/usgs.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040627/news_1m27gold.html

Also :

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Evidence supporting abiogenic theory
Cold planetary formation

In the late 19th century it was believed that the Earth was extremely hot, possibly completely molten, during its formation. One reason for this was that a cooling, shrinking, planet was necessary in order to explain geologic changes such as mountain formation. A hot planet would have caused methane and other hydrocarbons to be outgassed and oxidized into carbon dioxide and water, thus there would be no carbon remaining under the surface. Planetary science now recognizes that formation was a relatively cool process until radioactive materials accumulate together deep in the planet.

Known hydrocarbon sources

Carbonaceous chondrite meteorites contain carbon and hydrocarbons. Heated under pressure, this material would release hydrocarbon fluids in addition to creating solid carbon deposits. Further, at least ten bodies in our solar system are known to contain at least traces of hydrocarbons. In 2004, the Cassini spacecraft confirmed methane clouds and hydrocarbons on Titan, a moon of Saturn.

Gosh these dinosaurs get everywhere don't they ?

Unusual deposits

Hydrocarbon deposits have been found in places which are poorly explained by biogenic theory. Some oil fields are being refilled from deep sources, although this does not rule out a deep biogenic source rock. The White Tiger field in Vietnam and many wells in Russia, in which oil and natural gas are being produced from granite basement rock. As this rock is believed to have no oil-producing sediments under it, the biogenic theory requires the oil to have leaked in from source rock dozens of kilometers away.

"1) Limits to Growth, ever read it? Its so often mis-quoted as having predicted the end of oil already."

http://greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.pdf

"2) http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr54.html - This is the important one, with Rupperts respone. The supposed debunker never supplied any further data for his arguments, and cowardly decided not to enter into public debate. "

er..... the debate is over the Internet - not public enough ? As for further data perhaps you didn't read :

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr64.html
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html

"3) If the Russians pioneered this then surely there must be russian journals detailing whats going on field by field. Something more than a couple of papers written 40 years ago. Lemme see data from white tiger (vietnam), lemme see siberian data."

What - I have to do the research for you too ?

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inimr-ri.nsf/en/gr-76283e.html
http://icdp.gfz-potsdam.de/sites/kola/index/

I suggest looking up the Russian academics quoted here :

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Energy.html

"At the end of the day its really irrelevant what the source of oil is. "

So you partially admit Abiotic Origins ?

"rerere"

Ever done any research into the work of Reich / Orgone ? Did you know who "died" of a heart attack in a Federal Prison in 1957 & had all of his books / research destroyed by the Government - even his personal effects & wrtings were never released to his family ? Did you know his theories were even confirmed by EINSTEIN ? Guess not :

http://www.orgone.org/aaintro00.htm
http://www.orgonelab.org/skeptics.htm
http://www.orgone.org/articles/ax9rourke-a.htm

& anyway the issue you raised is not the point - the point is alternative forms of energy (in my post the Joe Fuel Cell which acts as an Orgone Generator)

"US Oil - peaked in 1972
North Sea Oil - peaked in 1999
Rest of the world apart from ME - peaked in 1997.

Look up the oil industry data - they'll confirm this fact. "

Of course they will - who benefits financially from the myth of scarcity ?
(hint - the Oil industry) - Vietnam doesn't seem to be peaking - nor Russia, both (if you haven't bothered to follow the story) are drilling through bedrock 1 mile down to reach oil :

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/brainstorm/0,15704,419014,00.html

The oil in the Gulf of Mexico doesn't seem to be either (from the Wall St. Journal) :

http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/wsj4.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/596421/posts

Did you know Sweden is Deep Drilling for Oil as well (see the work of Dr. Gold & http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.07/gold_pr.html

Did you know Canada has an estimated recoverable Sand Oils of 300 BILLION barrels (1.6 TRILLION in total)

http://itotd.com/index.alt?ArticleID=233

"conoffury
PostPosted: 2004-09-15, 13:33:02 Post subject:
Saying that peak oil theory is a conspiracy is laughable."

I think I just proved above we are not running out of Oil & it's not made from dead dinosaurs - why all the books etc.. about "peak oil" if it's not true ? Why are profitable refineries in the US being closed down ? (to create artificial shortages) - so what would you call it exactly Einstein ?
A collusion between 2 or more indivduals ?

"Grond

Everything I know about crude oil leads me to believe it is the product of organic material having long endured the forces of nature for millions of years. "

You don't really know anything about it then. (see above links & previous posts)

"Grond

Oil is depleteable. It's the product of decayed organic material. "

Bollocks - see above

Also bacteria exists at greater depths than you realise. By 1990, holes as deep as 6.7 kilometers (4.2 miles) had been drilled at Siijan (Sweden) using contamination-free drilling techniques. Definite quantities of volatile petroleum gas and light oils were recovered, along with a strange black puttylike fluid that carried a strong, objectionable odor and was thick with microscopic particles of magnetite. Two kinds of living thermophylic iron-reducing bacteria (which extract oxygen from hematite, changing it to magnetite) were cultured from the sludge. A later pump test of the well produced twelve tons of "normal-looking" crude oil mixed with fifteen tons of fine magnetite particles. This appears to be conclusive proof that there is life very deep within the Earth. How much, is as yet unknown.

"Grond

Prove to me otherwise and I'll give it the respect it deserves."

See this & previous posts

"Falconoffury
PostPosted: 2004-09-15, 12:38:16 Post subject:

I concede that some oil fields refill with oil, but that doesn't prove that oil is produced nearly as fast as we are using it. The fields aren't being refilled by oil being chemically produced right away, just oil that is rising from deeper wells that took just as many millions of years to form"

PennzEnergy Company found that the Eugene Island field was refilled with oil of a completely different geological age:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=38645

Are Oil Fields Naturally Refilling? A recent study suggests that some oil fields may be refilling themselves at nearly the same rate they are being drained. Much older oil (from the Jurassic) from far deeper in the earth is being found in shallow oil fields after more recent oil (from the Pleistocene) is pumped out. Some geologists think it may be useful to go back to old abandoned oil fields and see if fresh oil has seeped in. The U.S. Geological Survey's estimates of oil in the 48 states and state waters offshore has doubled since its last estimate in 1989. "Petroleum experts agree that no one has more than a vague notion of how much gas and oil remain in the world, or how long it will last." See Malcolm Browne, "Geochemist Says Oil Fields May Be Refilled Naturally," New York Times,11/26/95, B5.

Now can you prove the truth about the biological origin of oil ?

Red

At the point where:
The joe cell link claimed
1. The energy is manifested as a suction force, not an explosion force.
an engine operating with this cell seems to be functioning on the Implosion principle,

Engineering of engines are done to handle explosive forces. Implosive forces cause engines to self destruct over time.


At the point where:
5. Allowing individuals with highly negative emotions or personality or character to get too close to the cell (I know this sounds crazy, but it's true). Wilhelm Reich described this effect on orgone energy as the "Y" factor ("Y" standing for "you").

There is no way this 'orgone energy' can be studied, because if the results do not match the claims, "it must have been the sceptics"


At the point where the base science claims:
which-incredibly-later transformed themselves into living protozoa

This claim is not at all backed by biology.





I see. IF the base 'science' of the claim does not stand up, that doesn't matter?

Your base claims lack credibility. So why should your appeal to 'experts' be listened to when your 'experts' make non-credible/outright lie?



Once you provide actual engineering data showing an normal Gas engine can survive implosion.
Once you show that "Y factor" exists
and
Once you show that Protozoa/Amoeba can be created from this 'orgone' energy.


Go ahead. In fact, I have a $100 bill I'll give you. Come on. Rise up to the challenge.

Anyone who blindly believes in "Dr. Gold" is not woth anyone's time.
----

Redpill, do a search for "Aiabotic Oil" on these forums, and look at the threads about it.

--


{reformatted; EE}

im curious .... can anyone tell me the rate of extraction and the amount of oil "Eugene Island " is now giving up realative to when it was found....

in mike rupperts response to one of these articles he called it ( paraphrasing) and empty ditch ( or somthing like that ... I read the article about 2 hours ago .. can't remember the exact wording)....

anyway .. the other dudes response to ruppert completley ignored that claim...

so im just wondering.....

Many of us consider it a shame that Ruppert covers the 911 & similar conspiracy theory stuff.

Debunking Ruppert's "other" theories does not indict PO.

Tooth-fairy magical energy sources from suppressed scientists is the same sort of unsubstantiated junk you accuse Ruppert of.

Notice how any abiotic theory supporters grow silent when asked about rates of abiotic discovery failing to keep pace with demand, and are therefore quite irrelevant.

These points have been made already in this thread, AND MANY TIMES in other threads on this forum. <sigh>

POSTING LONG URLS DEFACES THE THREAD IT'S IN!

http://tinyurl.com

I think the fundamental problem is that.

Oil is being consumed at an increasing rate and faster than the rates of repletion (if the Russian theory holds true)

Much like water tables and soil. Water tables replenish at less than 0.01% per year topsoil forms at about one inch every 200 years.

If you use these renewable resources at a *faster* rate than repletion eventually you will run out. Same goes for your Russian oil arguments.

Hope this helps

This is the classical example of not understanding the problem...

it doesn't matter how oil is formed only the rate of production.

Boris
London

"rerere

Engineering of engines are done to handle explosive forces. Implosive forces cause engines to self destruct over time. "

Internal combustion engines maybe - NATURE works on the principle of IMPLOSION. Please look into the work of Viktor Schauberger

http://www.frank.germano.com/viktorschauberger.htm
http://www.tattva-viveka.de/victor/menzo.htm

"There is no way this 'orgone energy' can be studied"

Equipment :

http://www.orgone.org/requipment/rscheq00.htm

With an explanation of Orgone by Charles R. Kelley, Ph.D :

http://www.orgone.org/articles/ax9kelley1a.htm

"Once you provide actual engineering data showing an normal Gas engine can survive implosion."

Why on earth would you use a combustion engine for implosive principles ?
(see above work of Viktor Schauberger )

"Once you show that "Y factor" exists"

This says it all really :

http://tinyurl.com/5xmmr

"Once you show that Protozoa/Amoeba can be created from this 'orgone' energy."

The quote you picked out from all of Reich's work did not even state that :

He noticed that the cells of decaying grass or moss, suspended in water, would gradually break down and reform into very small energy vesicles (only seen at 2,000x and higher magnifications) which he termed bions. These bions gave off an intense blue light and eventually would congregate into bion heaps, which-incredibly-later transformed themselves into living protozoa, such as amoebae or paramecium!!

I think you have also neglected to realise that Orgone is a living (light) energy that permeates the universe (hint it has been given the name of Aether in the past by the Greeks)

http://tinyurl.com/48ny8

"Go ahead. In fact, I have a $100 bill I'll give you. Come on. Rise up to the challenge."

see above

"lotrfan55345

Anyone who blindly believes in "Dr. Gold" is not woth anyone's time."

I don't blindly believe anything - it's called "knowing stuff" (research) with a little intuition thrown in.

see http://www.prouty.org/oil.html

"Redpill, do a search for "Aiabotic Oil" on these forums, and look at the threads about it. "

At least I can spell "Aiabotic Oil" properly (Abiotic) - plus I started this thread under the title "Abiotic Oil / Alternative Energies (Peak Oil Scam)"
However I will look to see if there are any other threads.

You seem to make assertions that are not backed up by anything other than your opinion.

"BILL_THA_PHARMACIZT

im curious .... can anyone tell me the rate of extraction and the amount of oil "Eugene Island " is now giving up realative to when it was found.... "

From http://tinyurl.com/2nd2b

About 80 miles off of the coast of Louisiana lies a mostly submerged mountain, the top of which is known as Eugene Island. The portion underwater is an eerie-looking, sloping tower jutting up from the depths of the Gulf of Mexico, with deep fissures and perpendicular faults which spontaneously spew natural gas. A significant reservoir of crude oil was discovered nearby in the late '60s, and by 1970, a platform named Eugene 330 was busily producing about 15,000 barrels a day of high-quality crude oil.

By the late '80s, the platform's production had slipped to less than 4,000 barrels per day, and was considered pumped out. Done. Suddenly, in 1990, production soared back to 15,000 barrels a day, and the reserves which had been estimated at 60 million barrels in the '70s, were recalculated at 400 million barrels. Interestingly, the measured geological age of the new oil was quantifiably different than the oil pumped in the '70s.

see also :

The best estimates in 1942 indicated that the Kern River field in California had just 54 million barrels of remaining oil. By 1986, the field had produced 736 million barrels, and estimates put the remaining reserves at 970 million barrels.
(http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=578462004)

& http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr64.html

(examples of current capacity being cut to create artificial shortages)

"Aaron

Tooth-fairy magical energy sources from suppressed scientists is the same sort of unsubstantiated junk you accuse Ruppert of. "

As I mentioned above the theory of Aether / Ether goes back as far as Ancient Greece :

http://tinyurl.com/48ny8

Please also see my previous link to the Department of Energy actively researching Cold fusion. Call me old fashioned but any scientist who harmed no one & winds up dead in a Federal jail & has all of his equipment / research destroyed by the Government (Reich) kinda gets my attention. Same with Dr. Eugene Mallove (deceased very recently) & others. The following articles all seem to be by scientists with credentials + data :

http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/samplearticle.pdf

I haven't actually accused Rupert of anything - it just seems that a 250 year unproven theory of the origins of Oil (Mikhailo Lomonosov 1757) just doesn't add up if oil fields are refilling & reserves are being revised upwards. Added to this is the fact Oil is being extracted from regions & depths which completely invalidate "fossil fuel" theory
(please see my previous posts)

"Notice how any abiotic theory supporters grow silent when asked about rates of abiotic discovery failing to keep pace with demand, and are therefore quite irrelevant. "

See above & previous posts - do you really expect honest figures from Western Oil companies who are creating artificial shortages ? I guess you could lookup the White Tiger Fields in Vietnam & the Russian deep drilling I have cited several times before. Lets not forget the estimated 1.6 TRILLION barrels of oil sands Canada has (I mentioned this previously too)

"These points have been made already in this thread, AND MANY TIMES in other threads on this forum. <sigh> "

Well I've had a partial admittal that Oil is abiotic in origin twice now - guess you have to take the fallback position that "rates of abiotic discovery failing to keep pace with demand"

"Many of us consider it a shame that Ruppert covers the 911 & similar conspiracy theory stuff.

Debunking Ruppert's "other" theories does not indict PO. "

I never brought up 911 - however if you think it was executed by an Arab in a cave who was jealous of your freedom you are seriously deluded (& can go back to sleep now) - Peak Oil is basically a fallback position for the War (now the official story of 911 is falling apart)

The following is by Stanley Hilton who was a senior advisor to Sen Bob Dole (R) and has personally known Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz for decades.

http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm

But I must thank you for http://tinyurl.com

I have not really seen any evidence from any dissenters to invalidate anything I have posted above (other than "prove it")

Well I think I just kinda did.

Red

The point is that it simply does not matter how oil is formed to the peak argument.

If it's biotic, abiotic, or any other *tic, it's irrelevant.



You ain't really gonna field ancient Greek science as supporting evidence are you?

Sure scientists research Cold Fusion... And perhaps a breakthrough will occur in CF which solves all our problems.

Energy produced by CF to date = 0

So wonderful if it happens, but hardly a clear path out of our energy dilemma.



That's simply incorrect. ALL current extraction fields fall well within the "window" where oil can form.



http://peakoil.com/vlink116.html



And I didn't mention it either.

And your most welcome for tinyurl... I wish everyone would use it...

Please see the other thread I started with more info on the rate reserves are being replenished :

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic1664.html

Please follow the links I have provided for an overall picture.

"mididoctors

This is the classical example of not understanding the problem...
it doesn't matter how oil is formed only the rate of production.

Boris
London"

The following is from within a link above that I guess you never bothered to read (a classic example of not doing the research) :

In June 2003, Geotimes paid a visit to the Gulf of Mexico ("Raining Hydrocarbons in the Gulf")

(http://www.geotimes.org/june03/NN_gulf.html)

Below the Gulf of Mexico, hydrocarbons flow upward through an intricate network of conduits and reservoirs ... and this is all happening now, not millions and millions of years ago, says Larry Cathles, a chemical geologist at Cornell University.
"We're dealing with this giant flow-through system where the hydrocarbons are generating now, moving through the overlying strata now, building the reservoirs now and spilling out into the ocean now," Cathles says.
... Cathles and his team estimate that in a study area of about 9,600 square miles off the coast of Louisiana [including Eugene Island 330], source rocks a dozen kilometers [roughly seven miles] down have generated as much as 184 billion tons of oil and gas -- about 1,000 billion barrels of oil and gas equivalent. "That's 30 percent more than we humans have consumed over the entire petroleum era," Cathles say. "And that's just this one little postage stamp area; if this is going on worldwide, then there's a lot of hydrocarbons venting out."

Please see links above / other thread for profitable refineries being closed down to create artificial shortages.

Bet you didn't know Canada has an estimated 1.6 TRILLION barrels of sand oils ? (300 BILLION barrels are accessible now with current technology)

"Concerned

I think the fundamental problem is that.

Oil is being consumed at an increasing rate and faster than the rates of repletion (if the Russian theory holds true)"

see artificial shortages being created & quote above on current estimated reserves & repletion. (& other thread)

"Much like water tables and soil. Water tables replenish at less than 0.01% per year topsoil forms at about one inch every 200 years."

Oil replenishment has absolutely nothing to do with water tables. (new oil is being generated as we speak) Worldwide, estimated oil reserves grew 72 percent between 1976 and 1996. (source Sunday, April 25, 1999
It's no crude joke: this oil field grows even as it's tapped - CHRISTOPHER COOPER The Wall Street Journal)

"gnm

Yukos - they are simply tapping standard reserves. no big secret there."

The Russians are drilling 1 mile down into bedrock for Oil (below where "fossil fuel" theory says it should exist"

"abiotic oil - ok fine - so maybe it does happen that way but its not refilling fields fast enough to make any difference - maybe they will refill in another 50 million years.... "

Lookup the Eugene Island field filling up in less than 10 years - see above & other thread :

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic1664.html

Many Thx,

Red.