OK, while I agree that many of these things should be studied not the least of which being alternative energy theorys (zero point etc) let me play devils advocate.

Yukos - they are simply tapping standard reserves. no big secret there.

abiotic oil - ok fine - so maybe it does happen that way but its not refilling fields fast enough to make any difference - maybe they will refill in another 50 million years.... there is only one case where a "rapid refill" happened that I know of - it wasn't a total refill either and it could be attributed to a previously unknown reserve draining back into the known one... that was in the gulf of mexico.

As far as alternative energy goes... show me. seriously. show me one that works. If it has magnets in it then I'm not talking to you.
The best possibility I have seen is the recent re-emergence of cold-fusion. it would appear that theres "something" going on but the return power is still very small and the results elusive. Only time will tell.

Lisa! In this home we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
-Homer

ok done advocating

-G

The police say robbery -do you have proof that the police are incorrect?

It is still not rigorously understood just how coal, petroleum and natural gas are formed. The appearance of helium in oil suggests an abiotic source. Obviously, some further investigation is necessary. However, the phenomenon of Peak Oil could still occur even with the assumption of an abiotic source given that he rate of formation is slow.

As regards fields "filling up" with oil after previous depletion. Are they indeed filling up or have they lain fallow long enough to allow some of the previously trapped oil to be pumped?

And if wells rejuvenate themselves, why is the US only pumping a little over a third of what it did in 1970? And if the Russians have got the true line on oil formation, why do they continue to struggle for hard currency?

Mightn't the Hunt Brothers have already thought about checking out their old properties for more black gold? Sounds like alot of wishful thinking to me.

OK, while I agree that many of these things should be studied not the least of which being alternative energy theorys (zero point etc) let me play devils advocate.

Yukos - they are simply tapping standard reserves. no big secret there.

abiotic oil - ok fine - so maybe it does happen that way but its not refilling fields fast enough to make any difference - maybe they will refill in another 50 million years.... there is only one case where a "rapid refill" happened that I know of - it wasn't a total refill either and it could be attributed to a previously unknown reserve draining back into the known one... that was in the gulf of mexico.

As far as alternative energy goes... show me. seriously. show me one that works. If it has magnets in it then I'm not talking to you.
The best possibility I have seen is the recent re-emergence of cold-fusion. it would appear that theres "something" going on but the return power is still very small and the results elusive. Only time will tell.

Lisa! In this home we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
-Homer

ok done advocating

-G

"1. The term inorganic oil is an oxymoron " - only if you have trouble getting your head round the fact that oil is inorganic in origin (you don't really believe what you are taught is true do you ?)

Who benefits by concentrating on the myth of Peak Oil ? The lie has been pushed down our throats for 25+ years.

ABIOTIC OIL anyone ?

The Economist ("The Argument Needs Oiling," The Economist, August 15, 2002).

Millions of years ago, tiny animals and plants died. They settled at the bottom of the oceans. Over time, they were crushed beneath layers of sediment that built up above them and eventually turned into rock. The organic matter, now trapped hundreds of metres below the surface, started to change. Under the action of gentle heat and pressure, and in the absence of air, the biological debris turned into oil and gas. Or so the story goes.
In 1951, however, a group of Soviet scientists led by Nikolai Kudryavtsev claimed that this theory of oil production was fiction. They suggested that hydrocarbons, the principal molecular constituents of oil, are generated deep within the earth from inorganic materials. Few people outside Russia listened. But one who did was J. F. Kenney, an American[\b] who today works for the Russian Academy of Sciences and is also chief executive of Gas Resources Corporation in Houston, Texas. He says it is nonsense to believe that oil derives from “squashed fish and putrefied cabbages.” This is a brave claim to make when the overwhelming majority of petroleum geologists subscribe to the biological theory of origin. But Dr Kenney has evidence to support his argument.
In this week's Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, he claims to establish that it is energetically impossible for alkanes, one of the main types of hydrocarbon molecule in crude oil, to evolve from biological precursors at the depths where reservoirs have typically been found and plundered. He has developed a mathematical model incorporating quantum mechanics, statistics and thermodynamics which predicts the behaviour of a hydrocarbon system. The complex mixture of straight-chain and branched alkane molecules found in crude oil could, according to his calculations, have come into existence only at extremely high temperatures and pressures—far higher than those found in the earth's crust, where the orthodox theory claims they are formed.
[b]To back up this idea, he has shown that a cocktail of alkanes (methane, hexane, octane and so on) similar to that in natural oil is produced when a mixture of calcium carbonate, water and iron oxide is heated to 1,500° C and crushed with the weight of 50,000 atmospheres. This experiment reproduces the conditions in the earth's upper mantle, 100 km below the surface, and so suggests that oil could be produced there from completely inorganic sources.[\b]

Why is this not being discussed ? - seeing as it's backed up by 50 years of Russian research - how do you think YUKOS became so big ? Why is VIETNAM producing OIL ? (the US told them they had no resouces once upon a time) - dried up wells are replenishing in Louisiana (& profitable refineries are cutting back production or being mothballed) - what gives ?
(artificially created shortages to feed the lie)

see :

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=28449
(profitable refineries shut down)

http://www.geotimes.org/june03/NN_gulf.html
(oil fields replenishing themselves)

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html
(dinosaur theory debunked)

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr64.html

http://joevialls.altermedia.info/wecont ... akoil.html
(Russian Oil Tech)

Alternative energies ? DOE studying COLD FUSION as the cat is well & truly out of the bag :

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?nam ... nt&sid=918

Hot fission is NOT an alternative (despite billions of good money thrown at it) - ZERO POINT ENERGY anyone ? Dr.Eugene Mallove was murdered for his work on "alternative" energy http://www.infinite-energy.com/ - nothing new about it, it was rediscovered 100 years ago by TESLA (who btw wanted to give it FREELY to the world - you can probably find his autobiography on the net, it includes his article in the NY Times about this) - also check Dr. Wilhelm Reich & ORGONE Energy. Lookup the "Joe Fuel Cell" too (not a hydrogen cell - an ORGONE Generator)

So what would happen if folks realised Oil was NOT running out & much more efficent, cleaner alternatives were available ? Freedom anyone ?

Look it up.

RedPill

None of the "New Energy" sources are understood well enough to generate a significant amount of energy... yet.

Some oil wells refill not because oil is being chemically produced from deep within the earth. They refill because veins or deposits of oil under pressure deep under the surface are being forced up. It's when a liquid travels from a point of great pressure into a point of lighter pressure, and it's called diffusion.

Since when is Peak Oil shoved down anyone's throat? It's difficult to find information on it. My college library doesn't have any books on peak oil. Secondly, your arguments don't even attempt to debunk peak oil theory. Some oil fields refilling doesn't mean they all do, and it doesn't explain a country's overall reduction in oil production.

"Since when is Peak Oil shoved down anyone's throat? "

Well there have been plenty of warnings - lookup the Club of Rome "Limits to Growth" http://dieoff.org/page25.htm (this was back in the 70's) - we're supposed to have run out already - hasn't happened.

"It's difficult to find information on it."

& this website is www.peak what exactly .com ?

"My college library doesn't have any books on peak oil. Secondly, your arguments don't even attempt to debunk peak oil theory."

Peak Oil is debunked very humourously here :
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html

(but I guess you didn't bother reading the links I provided)

Some oil fields refilling doesn't mean they all do, and it doesn't explain a country's overall reduction in oil production.

OK so you admit some fields are refilling - but doesn't that kinda negate the theory that oil is from dead dinosaurs & the supply is finite ? - guess you didn't bother to read the reports of profitable US refineries cutting production or being mothballed :

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=28449
http://www.gasresources.net/DisposalBioClaims.htm
http://www.gasresources.net/energy_resources.htm

Yukos - they are simply tapping standard reserves. no big secret there.

Yes indeed with the Deep Drilling technology developed as the Russians KNOW how Oil is really produced :

http://www.gasresources.net/DDBflds2.htm

(I recommend all of www.gasresources.net) - btw Dr. Kenney is American

"As far as alternative energy goes... show me. seriously. show me one that works. "

Lt. Col Tom Bearden's MEG (Motionless Electronmagnetic Generator" :

US Patent #6,362,718
http://tinyurl.com/2voq2

Guess you didn't bother to lookup the Joe Fuel Cell, Wilhelm Reich / Orgone Energy or come across the work of Viktor Schauberger :

http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml

"Lisa! In this home we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
-Homer "

Well someone else who doesn't bother reading the links :

http://www.geotimes.org/nov02/NN_oil.html

Here we have a published study, subjected to peer review (thus assuring the "validity" of the study), that demonstrates, with mathematical certainty, that it is actually the 'fossil fuel' theory that defies the laws of thermodynamics.

(From http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html)

"rerere

redpill wrote:
Dr.Eugene Mallove was murdered for his work on "alternative" energy

The police say robbery -do you have proof that the police are incorrect?"

Grow up - you probably think Kennedy was shot by Oswald. Plus he was found dead in a recently vacated rental property he was cleaning out http://www.infinite-energy.com/whoarewe/gene.html Where's the motive for robbery ? (sure wasn't anything left to steal) Can't you find anything else wrong with the info but that ? Even if I did have proof what the hell does it matter if all the info I've mentioned is TRUE.

Red Pill

I concede that some oil fields refill with oil, but that doesn't prove that oil is produced nearly as fast as we are using it. The fields aren't being refilled by oil being chemically produced right away, just oil that is rising from deeper wells that took just as many millions of years to form as the shallower oil fields. Deep drilling may help to tap more oil, but that doesn't make oil renewable. Even those deep wells will lose pressure, and stop forcing oil to shallow wells. Several countries have collapsed oil production that used to be strong decades ago. It's only a matter of time for the rest of the world.

I don't know. This argument strikes me as the same sort of jibberjabber that Christians use to explain away evidence that the world is many billions of years old. What about sedimentation and fossils and carbon dating... well, God just made it all look that way because HE is mysterious.

Oh. Mmmm, kay.


Everything I know about crude oil leads me to believe it is the product of organic material having long endured the forces of nature for millions of years. To say that "well oil reserves are actually refilling up by forces unknown" is really ludicrious. You might as well just say GOD is filling it up when we aren't looking.


It just seems to me as these are people who don't understand planetary concepts, or the concept that some things can only be measured in terms of millions or billions of years. But how can they? Everything they know and understand has happened within the course of their lifetime, a scant few decades. Try to explain that light coming from a galaxy 500 light years away might not even exist today to a Creationist and you'll get some half assed reply like "well, God invented those beams of light to travel faster than what we know the constant speed of light has proven to be, so nyah nyah nyah, try and science your way out of Hell now! muhahahahha".

Oil is depleteable. It's the product of decayed organic material.

Prove to me otherwise and I'll give it the respect it deserves. Proselytize and I'll ignore you.

Just for edification, asserting that there is a global coverup to convince the world that oil is in fact depletable -- that there is a VAST conspiracy to gouge people at the pump in which nobody has ever managed to learn of nor unveil -- is proseltyizing.

If this conspiracy is so vast how can I be sure I am not talking to an agent of Big Brother right now ???

Whether or not it's abiotic or not means little to nothing. If we run out of the supply we have access to, we're in a world of shit. Period. I always liked the idea of cold fusion though. If it's real, that'd be a pretty neat tool to have should there somehow be the time to put it into practical use. Not too optimistic that there will be that sort of timeframe, but it's still nice to hold out a little hope.

Saying that peak oil theory is a conspiracy is laughable. Conspiracies aren't about using gloom and doom to cover up the happy times. They are about using good news to cover up bad news. Selling doom and gloom is bad business. People only want to buy happy times.

[Please don't quote entire lengthy posts]

RedPill

Start a new thread...

:D

(Looks like we have one more of those people)

Redpill,

You think peak oil is a myth, but here's a few facts;

US Oil - peaked in 1972
North Sea Oil - peaked in 1999
Rest of the world apart from ME - peaked in 1997.

Look up the oil industry data - they'll confirm this fact. Depletion is the result of the use of a finite resource. No matter what theories have been postulated - and you're talking about the theory reported by a single scientist in book he published, that has been refuted by the great majority of both oil businessman and geologists (the chaps who really understand the resource base) - peak is fact. It happens. Infinite oil is something you would like to happen, but peak oil is the reality that does happen.

OPEC, the cartel who's commercial advantage is refuting peak oil cannot be overstated, also acknowledge peak oil. The reason is because they have no option to (see the facts above).

Do you know why the US is now importing oil rather than producing it itself? See above.

Abiotic is a nice thought, but it just doesn't match with proven fact.

Mark

So your "response" to a request for information to help a police is for me to "grow up"?

Such a disrespect for the rule of law!

From one of your links:

Orgone Energy
Wilhelm Reich, a titan among 20th century scientists, discovered orgone energy in the late 1930's as an outgrowth of his study of the psychic and physiological functions of the sexual orgasm of which he first published studies in 1923. His numerous experiments led him to a microscopic observation of decaying plant and animal cells. He noticed that the cells of decaying grass or moss, suspended in water, would gradually break down and reform into very small energy vesicles (only seen at 2,000x and higher magnifications) which he termed bions. These bions gave off an intense blue light and eventually would congregate into bion heaps, which-incredibly-later transformed themselves into living protozoa, such as amoebae or paramecium!!

That and:

5. Allowing individuals with highly negative emotions or personality or character to get too close to the cell (I know this sounds crazy, but it's true). Wilhelm Reich described this effect on orgone energy as the "Y" factor ("Y" standing for "you").

So if you BELIEVE that Paramecium will appear, they due due to the power of the Orgone! And here I thought the idea of Spontanious Generation was a dead idea.