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View unanswered posts | View active topics
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Keith_McClary
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Post subject: Re: Peak Oil fallacy articles Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:39 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1566 Location: Suburban tar sands
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Riddick wrote: Matt, What's your take on these two articles? Thx, Riddick http://www.reformation.org/oil-monopoly.html
Williams is totally clueless about gas and water injection.
See for example:
http://www.fe.doe.gov/programs/oilgas/eor/
If you do not reinject gas, the pressure will decline and the oil will stop flowing to the surface. You would then need to pump it out. That is what the "pump jack" in the illustration is doing, there is a long cable operating a pump at depth.
The reinjected gas can be produced after oil production has finished.
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PhilBiker
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:40 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1304
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Riddick,
Do you have anything better? I have very little hope and I sure could use a good credible research paper to give me some.
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Riddick
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:45 pm |
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Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 432 Location: Hiding from the All-Seeing Eye
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No, I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't.
I do think, however, that the new Peak Oil diet will put the Adkins and the South Beach diets to shame.
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Keith_McClary
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:44 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1566 Location: Suburban tar sands
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PhilBiker wrote: Riddick,
Do you have anything better? I have very little hope and I sure could use a good credible research paper to give me some.
I have been looking for sceptic/debunking sites/articles.
They usually follow the same pattern:
1) Malthus and other doomsayers were wrong, therefore all such predictions are forever wrong.
2) Higher oil prices will stimulate exploration for new oilfields, improved recovery from existing fields, alternate energy sources and conservation.
For example,
http://www.worldoil.com/magazine/magazi ... orial.html
PERRY A. FISCHER, EDITOR, WorldOil magazine says:
"The truth is, there's a lot more recoverable oil at $50 than there is at $20. But could the world withstand such high prices? Undoubtedly. And the attendant demand destruction, together with the upsurge in alternatives, would further delay exhaustion of the resource."
But "demand destruction" means that people must drive and fly and heat their homes much less - there are few alternatives to oil and gas available to most people for these uses in the next few years.
I have not seen any sceptics who tell us quantitatively where our oil and gas is coming from over the next 10 years or thereafter (new fields or enhanced recovery from old fields) or what alternatives we will be using or how much of the gap will be filled by conservation technologies.
They rely on blind faith in technological advances, market forces and the Iraqi Information Minister (from whom the current Iraq reserve estimates came).
On the bright side, did you know that in Calgary, Canada we have the world's only wind powered Light Rail Transit system? I'm tempted to fake up a picture showing railcars with sails, but actually they have purchased an equivalent amount of power from windmills 200 km. to the south. And just today it was announced that our local McDonald's "restaurants" will be on wind power. They feel this will absolve them for many tons of petroleum based packaging waste.
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goldfishbowl42
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:42 am |
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 144
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Quote: Throughout the history of the petroleum industry, there have been written numerous articles or reports predicting an imminent demise of that industry all predicated upon assumptions that the supply of producible crude oil in the world was (supposedly) being rapidly depleted and would soon (therefore) be exhausted.(Campbell 1991; Fuller 1993; Campbell 1994; Campbell 1995) In short, the world was (if such were believed), “running out of oil.” Happily, all such predictions have, without a single exception, been proven wrong.
I hate it when people say that because arguements about the imminent decline of oil production didn't come true within 5 years, they are proved wrong. In terms of oil creation, a thousand years is a short time. So if oil production is going to decline in the next 50 years, then its imminent. (let alone the next 5)
So how can "all such predictions have, without a single exception, been proven wrong."
Many people have already refuted the abiotic deep creation of oil theory, and pointed to the fact that almost all the oil fields we see were produced in a few types of sedimentary rocks with organic material, and that have at some point in their lifetime been between 7,500 and 15,000 feet deep. I thought it was generally accepted in the entire oil inductry that any deeper than 15,000 feet and the organic matter is cracked into gas and will not yield oil. Above 7,500 the heat and pressure would not have been great enough to crack the organic matter into oil.[/i]
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EnviroEngr
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Post subject: By any other name. Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:50 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1887 Location: Richland Center, Wisconsin
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Wait...
Isn't this TD?
_________________ ----------------------------------------- | Whose reality is this anyway!? | ----------------------------------------- (---------< Temet Nosce >---------) __________________________
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Keith_McClary
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:03 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1566 Location: Suburban tar sands
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Quoting myself:
Keith_McClary wrote:
I have not seen any sceptics who tell us quantitatively where our oil and gas is coming from over the next 10 years or thereafter (new fields or enhanced recovery from old fields) or what alternatives we will be using or how much of the gap will be filled by conservation technologies.
Has anyone seen any sites/articles which actually do this? The lack of any such is the most compelling case for peak oil.
There should be a sceptics / debunkers page under WebLinks:
http://peakoil.com/gate.html?name=Web_Links
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Devil
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:37 am |
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 837 Location: Cyprus
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I don't have expertise in the matter but:
1. The term inorganic oil is an oxymoron
2. The Eugene Island and similar phenomena are quite well known. If you have a large pool of oil (or water) being pumped out of a relatively poorly porous rock, the level will drop locally round the borehole. If pumping is stopped then slow seepage will cause the level to rise again, even if it may take several years. Occasionally, pressure differences across an impervious "dam", may cause it to crack and permit the seepage rate to increase. I've seen it happen here, where borehole extraction of water has caused the water table, in places, to drop by several tens of metres and then the level started to rise again for no apparent reason, while the level may suddenly start to drop in a neighbouring borehole. (The sins of water demand being greater than the supply  We have passed peak water  )
3. IF, and its a very big IF, HCs polymerised at high temps and pressures close to the mantle, and they percolated up to areas of lower pressure and temp, the molecules would crack back down to the lowest common denominator, methane, IMHO, or even carbon (diamonds?) and hydrogen. Sorry, I cannot visualise it happening to any significant extent. I say this as a gut feeling and not as scientific hypothesis.
_________________ Devil
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small_steps
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:36 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 262
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4 Billion barrels
well, we're losing sleep when we have this, dam, civilization as we know it is saved, hooray (for awhile)
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EnviroEngr
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Post subject: Cross-reference T.D. discussion Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:22 am |
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1887 Location: Richland Center, Wisconsin
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_________________ ----------------------------------------- | Whose reality is this anyway!? | ----------------------------------------- (---------< Temet Nosce >---------) __________________________
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larrydallas
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Post subject: This article claims Peak Oil is a Hoax Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:58 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 178
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http://joevialls.altermedia.info/wecont ... akoil.html
This guy takes it a bit far by saying oil supply is unlimited but his ultra deep well drilling theory is worth discussion.
I think he is right about the maintanenace of wells. Oil corporations probably do not want down time so they would rather drill a new well than fix an old one.
How sea water is injected into fields like Gahwar to increase pressure makes sense when you consider what this guy says about sediments and other junk clogging up the well at the base as time goes by. I figure it much be cheaper to pressurize the oil and drill new wells than clean the base "pore" of the well shaft.
Read it and make comments.
I am not an oil man so I can not verfiy or discount what he says.
Maybe the moderator should put this in the "expert" section for further clarification.
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Aaron
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:04 pm |
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| 800 lb Gorilla |
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6759 Location: Houston
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_________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts
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Yamaha_R6
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:04 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 130
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Well thats quite the conspiracy theory.... is there any truth to this...?
I think the whole damn internet is one big scam. You can't believe anything on it. Peak oil... infinite oil.... It's time I get back watching TV.
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Sencha
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:11 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 402 Location: Massachusetts
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Quote: It's time I get back watching TV.
Enjoy it while it lasts. 
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stepka
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:49 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 163 Location: missouri
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Well I did a search on the author of this piece, Joe Vialls, and from what I can tell he is, to put it mildly, a crackpot nutcase. He is, by his own claims, living simply on a disability pension in Oz, and asking for money to keep on keepin on, but manages to travel all over the world to write these articles that point to Zionist conspiracies. Somehow they never add up. I read this article and it all sounded quite plausible until I got to the part about American consumption of oil going up from what, 6 b/g/d to 9 b/g/d. And Soviet consumption dropping quite a lot in the same period. I know their economy has been a mess, but if they are producing all this oil he talks about, then their economy should be better, and they should be swimming in lots of cheap oil, right? And I have never known a big corporation to miss an opportunity, zionist conspiracy or not.
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