|
|
|
News |
| |
|
Discussions |
| |
|
Resources |
| |
|
Members |
| | |
|
| |
|
|
|
Support PeakOil.com Visit Our Advertisers
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
| Author |
Message |
|
BigTex
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:52 am |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 4008 Location: Graceland
|
|
Cube, check back in from time to time.
Sorry to see you go.
_________________
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
drew
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:49 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 978 Location: canada
|
|
See you Cube!
You're one of the keystones of "Traders Corner et al", I'll miss your contributions.
Your comments about the rest of this place generally are spot on. It is an angry and depressing site.
Best of luck in the markets!
Drew
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
MrBill
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:56 am |
|
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 5674 Location: Eurasia
|
Arsalan wrote: Quote: Is a bubble in treasury debt market forming? If so, how long could it still go on? How might it burst? What would be the consequences and the collateral damage of its bursting? The recent rapid expansion in money supply is barely reaching consumers and small businesses in the form of loans, to a great extent due to structural damage suffered by the institutions and credit intermediaries which act as conduit for the flow of funds in the economy. As such, quantitative easing is having limited success in stimulating demand, but the excess supply is creating a bubble in the treasury debt market. The 30-yr. treasury yield closed at 3.04% on Friday, Dec. 12th, 2008.
Have an honest look at the fed's balance-sheet, US budget deficit, record public debt which is still expected to dramatically and indefinitely grow, the exploding liabilities of the entitlement programs, the slowing US economy and the increasingly Japanese style of bailouts of failing private enterprises with public funds. Does it make economic sense to lend money to the US for 20+ years for a paltry 3% return? Hiten wrote: Quote: Greetings Arsalan,
(a) Is there a bubble forming in Treasuries? Very likely... it will burst when the Banks open their end of the spigots again.
(b) If so, how long could it still go on? Almost impractical to put a hard timeline on this... many risk events yet to play out, even though Ben Bernanke and compatriots are trying to flood the market with liquidity; "trying" being the operative word here. Remember, the likes of Merrill Lynch are still advocating that Treasuries will outperform other markets in 2009... which is quite difficult to believe.
Recent demand for Treasuries has been rather buoyant based on bid-to-cover ratios, seemingly due to large Corporates and institutional holders not having faith in even the major banks to hold their temporary client funds or other short term capital.
(b) How might it burst? Quite simply, return of risk appetite and release of liquidity by the major banks to end economic agents, i.e. you and me, corporates, etc.
(c) Consequences? The US dollar could take a major toll among other things. The Greenback's fall over the last five years took a breather in the past six months, but we may see that downward trend resuming in the foreseeable future.
If there is not enough demand for US sovereign debt, what's going to happen to the funding shortfall? Recent TIC (Term Inflows) statistics show that the US was having a hard time attracting capital.
Remember, if major risk events continue to happen, such as sovereign default in key countries, or requirement to further recapitalise banks globally, it may help keep a temporary floor in the Greenback's value.
Lending to Uncle Sam for a measly 2% a year does not make economic sense, but neither does it make sense to loose 15% to 20% of your capital by committing to equity or corporate debt markets. Investors are not relying on Corporate Debt because of high risk of default and loss of earning power which could have significant impact on interest and principal payments.
Another thing is that a lot of banks outside the United States have Dollar denominated liabilities for which they required adequate collateral, hence the swap lines being established by Federal Reserve with various countries.
It's merely a safety play which will unwind at some point in the foreseable future bar any major black swan events (default of certain G8 economy, etc).
Lets not even get started on the unfunded public liabilities, fiscally irresponsible lending windows, bailout programmes, etc !
Hope that helps.
Hiten added: Quote: Arsalan, Here is another article from Bloomberg, which discusses that Treasuries are not in a bubble because there is more room in the Long Bond for falling yields: Bloomberg LinkI don't totally deny that there is some room left in the long end of the curve but when investors flee various parts of the curve, it's going to be like a springboard effect ! A good rule of thumb is that when you think you're already in a bubble, and no doubt this applies to the UST at the moment, that it can inflate another 50% before it implodes. We may see 10-year UST yields near 2% before that happens. Ditto for the German bund. Edit: my bunds are up 10% YTD plus I am earning the 4% p.a. coupon and they are safe. the question as always is when to exit this trade and go back into stocks? At some point before they reach 2% YTM There is no value in these bonds at those types of yield, especially given the fiscal stimuli and loose monetary policies as well as a race to the bottom with regards to currencies as everyone tries to devalue in order to remain export competitive. As I wrote yesterday there were some very interesting headlines in Reuters: China says to allow for yuan-denominated settlement of trade between some provinces and ASEAN countries – Xinhua -and- China raised export tax rebates on machinery, electronic products – Xinua It sounds like they are determined to break the link to the US dollar for trade, but in the meantime they are also going to be exporting over-capacity and disinflation by increasing tax rebates that are effectively export subsidies. This newest wrinkle comes at an awkward time for the USA as more exports in CNY mean fewer export receipts in USD, which reduces the demand for USD-denominated treasury bills. UPDATE: China-US trade frictions Quote: Trade frictions between Beijing and Washington are expected to grow amid a deepening world recession and as U.S. interest groups demand President-elect Barack Obama put "tough on China" trade talk into action.
The U.S. Trade Representative's office on Friday announced it had begun legal action at the World Trade Organization (WTO) aimed at halting Chinese government subsidy programs to boost the sale of Chinese-branded goods around the world.
The action, against a patchwork of cash grants, preferential loans and other incentives paid to Chinese exporters, follows recent U.S. moves to put import duties on Chinese goods, including steel products, paper and off-road tires.
China, where millions of workers have been laid off in recent months amid slowing exports, has protested against the charge, casting incentives given by local governments to exporters as merely one-off, symbolic "rewards." source: Sino-U.S. trade ties face test amid global slumpSchadenfreude Corner Quote: Just about everybody got wrong-footed by 2008, but some people's mistakes were truly spectacular
Here are some of the worst predictions that were made about 2008. Savor them—a crop like this doesn't come along every year.
1. "A very powerful and durable rally is in the works. But it may need another couple of days to lift off. Hold the fort and keep the faith!" —Richard Band, editor, Profitable Investing Letter, Mar. 27, 2008 source: The Worst Predictions About 2008Some moral support from Caroline Baum against Paul Krugman's crass Keynesian policies on steroids. I used the example of giving everyone brooms and sending them out to sweep the streets to create jobs, she uses digging ditches to make her point. The conclusion is the same: it is not just about creating jobs, but what kind of jobs, and at what cost? Fiscal conservatives are a rare breed facing extinction it seems. Quote: Obama has been working with his advisers so that the proposed $750-billion-and-counting package of tax breaks and spending on infrastructure, education, health care and unemployment insurance is ready to go on Day One. (No on-the-job training necessary!)
There are currently about 10 million unemployed workers in the U.S. (The Bureau of Labor Statistics defines as unemployed those persons who didn’t work in the week of the monthly employment survey, were available for work and made an effort to find work in the previous month.)
“If we write a check for $75,000 to each of the unemployed, we won’t have anyone ‘unemployed,’†said former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill.
The recipients may not be working in the traditional sense of going to the office each day, but the government can provide for their needs without anyone having to lift a finger.
The Obama administration’s goal of creating 3 million new jobs by January 2011 will run smack into “the natural demographic flow, which will add 3.2 million people to the workforce†in the same time period, O’Neill said. In effect, “we are going to spend $750 billion, the number of unemployed will rise and the (unemployment) rate will go down slightly.â€
Shoveling to Prosperity
O’Neill did the math so you don’t have to. Each job “will cost $250,000, which doesn’t suggest much labor intensity for the dollars spent,†he said. “It makes me wonder if any of the planners or commentators are good at arithmetic.â€
They’re not good at arithmetic. And one wonders about their facility with economics.
If putting people to work is the goal, we could get rid of all the heavy earth-moving equipment and go back to digging ditches with shovels.
Why stop there? If it takes one man two days to dig a trench three feet deep and 30 feet long with a shovel, how long would it take 100 men using spoons?
You get the point. We can always create jobs by replacing capital with labor, by going backward. The entire history of civilization has been characterized by an effort to move in the opposite direction and become more productive, which is another way of saying produce more with less.
Automation and technological innovation have had the effect of replacing humans with machines. Yet the unemployment rate isn’t perpetually rising. As countries develop, they create new and better jobs, not more of the same old ones. The goal is to raise the standard of living, something that (all economists agree) can only be achieved through higher productivity growth.
source: Obama’s Job-Creation Program Flunks Basic Math
_________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Carlhole
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:55 am |
|
 |
| Knight of the Realm |
 |
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 3977
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
cube
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:03 am |
|
 |
| Fusion |
 |
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 3955
|
Carlhole wrote: He says he's a lousy market timer, but there are great opportunities in commodities and recommends that people look at ETFs and ETMs. Says oil will eventually go way high again.
Still liquidating his remaining dollar positions. The secret to investing is simple:
rule 1) Lose only 1 and Win at least 3
rule 2) Be right 50% of the time
It's my observation that most people are actually pretty good with rule 2) -------> it's not being able to follow rule 1) that kills most people.
For example how many people had a profit in stocks by October 1929, 1987, and 2007?
I don't know why people keep on saying making money is hard.
On the contrary I think it's easy, it's just holding onto it that is hard.
//
As for commodities I don't know?
I used to be very bullish on it but the crash has left even me shocked!
If the market dropped by 33% and you said, "Don't worry it's still a bull market. That's just a correction / retracement."
Okay I'm willing to buy that argument.
But a 66% drop is NOT a correction. That's called a bear market.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
MrBill
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:48 am |
|
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 5674 Location: Eurasia
|
[align=center] Final post for 2008![/align][align=center]
World Equity Index
 World Bond Index
 S&P 500 YTD
 S&P Energy Index YTD
 German 10Y Bund
 Money Supply & Inflation
 Commodity Prices YTD
 S&P Equity Winners & Losers (bankrupt firms not shown)
 Commodity Returns YTD
 Gold as an Inflation Hedge YTD
[/align]
I am off to the ME and Asia tonight, back in mid-January, so this will be the final post for 2008. It has been a rough year to say the least. January-June looked completely different than July-December. At least for energy and commodity investors as well as for emerging markets and even dollar bulls or bears. There was something for everyone. A real trader's market that separated the market timers from the merely lucky.
As for predictions I expect more bad news from the real economy in Q1'09, and probably all of 2009 will be a write-off as far as global growth is concerned. I am expecting an L-shaped recovery at best, although I am sure unemployment and store bankruptcies will no doubt spike after the last Boxing Day sale takes place. Volatility will remain high regardless, so on a risk adjusted basis returns will remain under pressure. I believe energy and commodities are now over-sold, and that selectively one can re-enter some sectors, but cautiously. This is a beggars' banquet and not a moveable feast.
Looking further ahead I see the results of excessive money supply creation, zero real interest rates, loose fiscal policies and relative currency weakness as manifesting inflation down the road or at least devaluing financial assets and paper currencies as any credible store of wealth or hedge against inflation. It does not help that governments are constantly re-writing rules and regulations making prudent planning impossible as they openly use taxpayers' money to discriminate against some asset class holders in favor of other stakeholders. Appreciating this shift from disinflation to re-inflation will mean ignoring nominal prices and looking instead at asset prices relative to one another.
However, this is something you will have to figure out on your own as there will be no Trader's Corner 2009. Thanks to everyone that contributed. I appreciated your insights and thank you for allowing me to think aloud on these pages. It has been a great help to me personally and professionally. Now it is time to move on. Take care and all the best in the new year. Cheers. MrBill.
_________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
topcat
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:30 am |
|
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:00 am Posts: 583 Location: Northern US
|
|
MB: Thanks for the charts. I do not see much change to them in the next few days.
My real thanks goes to you for baring & sharing your insights!
_________________ "No workey, no beef jerkey." TC
"Home is where the hot dogs are." TC
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
cube
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:51 pm |
|
 |
| Fusion |
 |
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 3955
|
MrBill wrote: .... However, this is something you will have to figure out on your own as there will be no Trader's Corner 2009. Thanks to everyone that contributed. I appreciated your insights and thank you for allowing me to think aloud on these pages. It has been a great help to me personally and professionally. Now it is time to move on. Take care and all the best in the new year. Cheers. MrBill. Trader's Corner was my my favorite thread here at PO.com
However for every beginning their must be an end. That's the way life works.
Rules to live by:
1) never lose more than 10% of your money on a trade.
2) cut your losses short let your profits run
3) the most important position is NO position. You don't always have to be in the market.
good luck to everybody
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
BigTex
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:34 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 4008 Location: Graceland
|
|
Perhaps we could have a Traders Corner with MrBill as an occasional contributor, rather than host.
It's interesting that treasuries were the best performing asset of 2008 (I think). I doubt if anyone would have believed that a year ago.
For those who lament the decline in quality here at the site, I think that these things ebb and flow, just like everything else.
_________________
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
mkwin
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:34 am |
|
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 641
|
Thanks for contributing Mr Bill.
I would also like traders corner to continue. I can certanily contribute more although hosting it would be a little too much work than I can spare at the moment.
Quote: As for predictions I expect more bad news from the real economy in Q1'09, and probably all of 2009 will be a write-off as far as global growth is concerned. I am expecting an L-shaped recovery at best, although I am sure unemployment and store bankruptcies will no doubt spike after the last Boxing Day sale takes place. Volatility will remain high regardless, so on a risk adjusted basis returns will remain under pressure. I believe energy and commodities are now over-sold, and that selectively one can re-enter some sectors, but cautiously. This is a beggars' banquet and not a moveable feast.
I also believe we are just about there with commodities.
I am buying a big postion in OIH in the new year. It is not far from multi-year bottoms and the upside is huge. Much of the growth in new oil supplies will involve the oil service companies in one way or another.
The downside is maybe 25% - the upside 200% plus.
Have a great New Year all.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
drew
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:13 am |
|
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 978 Location: canada
|
|
As you know, Mr Bill, we've all appreciated the great work you've done here. In all seriousness, I've always wondered how many hours a day you spend posting! Anyways, being you've not said you're leaving, like Cube, I expect you'll still have great commentary/debate from time to time for the hoi polloi at PO.COM. Have a good new year!
Drew
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
sparky
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:15 pm |
|
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 378
|
|
.
Thanks for the ride Mr Bill , it was a blast
a few from the thirties
when the paper boy talk about making a killing on the stock market ..sell
Don't tell me what to do , any fool know that .. tell me when
Nobody got broke from selling too soon .
.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
ROCKMAN
|
Post subject: Re: Trader's Corner 2008 Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:48 pm |
|
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 1202 Location: TEXAS
|
|
I'll add my thanks from the Lone Star state also, Mr. Bill.
Adios
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|

|