|
|
|
News |
| |
|
Discussions |
| |
|
Resources |
| |
|
Members |
| | |
|
| |
|
|
|
Support PeakOil.com Visit Our Advertisers
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
| Author |
Message |
|
GoIllini
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:00 am |
|
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 571
|
grabby wrote: Oh by the way, many things have changed so we won't see the inflation effects.
the CPI (Consumer price index) has been changed several times so you don't see the effects of inflation, they took a whole slew of goods such as AVERAGED HOUSEING AVERAGED RENT etc (Notice the AVERAGE IN THERE? it will be years before an average changes Just to assuage any fears of conspiracies, the CPI is run by the University of Michigan if I remember correctly; not the federal government. As for average rent, one could argue that it takes years for average gas prices to change. That argument would be fallacious. Quote: the fact is over the last four years our inflation is about 25 percent higher about in my opinion havent you NOTICED? I bought a porsche in 1974 for 14,000 try and buy one now. pop, a dollar a can in convenience stores used to be 10 cents and 8 cents.gas, water, flour everything. Yeah; it costs 3 times as much today. But this is over 30 years. That gives us 3.7% inflation. Quote: dont paly the game, do NOT take any more loans out, I think this is the last round of selling off properties even the DONALD dold his palm home for 129 milllion today (he bought it for a lot less a few months back) If the dollar is going to continue to devalue, it seems that taking fixed rate loans out would be a wise move. Quote: pay off your loans. by things that dont rus, stay away from markets they are going to get real volatile and there will be many people SCREAMING FOR YOU TO BUY STOCKS its SUCH A GOOD DEAL and you GONNA MISS IT!
Except for oil, coal, railroads, mining, and non-fossil-fuel-heavy utilities.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Revi
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:52 am |
|
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 4255 Location: Maine
|
|
There's a lot of opportunity out there for the individual investor, particularly if you know about Peak Oil. Things are going to change. Change could be to our favor if we move to the right place. Solar panels, wind, hydro all will be in better and better shape as the rest of the economy goes down. It's clear to me. Anything non fossil fueled good, fossil fuel bad. You can ride the oil companies or play the futures game, but in the medium to long term, even they are dead. Get with the new energy now, it'll be a better ride. The answer comes up every morning.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
DesertBear2
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:50 pm |
|
 |
| Intermediate Crude |
 |
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 593 Location: BlueRidgeVA
|
GoIllini wrote: It's very simple: hike interest rates up now
Just one little problem there. It seems that over 40% of S&P profits come from the financial sector. This means that nearly half of the US economy operates by shuffling financial papers around and deriving profits from finance fees and interest rate differentials.
This fragile balloon is kept aloft by a high-pressure hose of low-interest funny money. If short-term interest rates are raised near to or above the actual 5-7% inflation rate, the balloon will violently deflate and take the US "service economy" with it. Say goodbye to the hyper-inflated real estate residential sector- which is the only dynamic sector in the US outside of the military weaponry business.
And there won't be many foreign lenders around to re-inflate US hyper-consumer economy at that point. It will be a long, long haul to rebuild ourselves into a real manufacturing economy again...maybe impossible with the impending Peak Oil emergency.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
MonteQuest
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:51 pm |
|
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 14024 Location: Sedona, Arizona
|
dissimulo wrote: Setting the consequences of peak oil aside, if you believe we will find a way to avoid a major depression in the US, how will we do that? How will we deal with inflation, the housing bubble, excess foreign holdings of our debt, and decreasing value of the dollar?
The Current Account Deficit (CAD) is unsustainbale and must be corrected.
How?
There are only three ways:
1. Increase savings (highly unlikely)
2. Increase exports by 51% (never happen)
3. Raise interest rates to curb spending and hope nothing breaks. (current policy)
_________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
DantesPeak
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:17 pm |
|
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6333 Location: New Jersey
|
MonteQuest wrote: dissimulo wrote: Setting the consequences of peak oil aside, if you believe we will find a way to avoid a major depression in the US, how will we do that? How will we deal with inflation, the housing bubble, excess foreign holdings of our debt, and decreasing value of the dollar? The Current Account Deficit (CAD) is unsustainbale and must be corrected. How? There are only three ways: 1. Increase savings (highly unlikely) 2. Increase exports by 51% (never happen) 3. Raise interest rates to curb spending and hope nothing breaks. (current policy)
Right, and keep in mind that by following option #3 interest costs keep accelerating. The $1 trillion that the US takes in during 2005 costs about $40 billion a year in interest - more or less forever - from now. That means the US must finance a greater and greater CAD every year if nothing else is done, or happens.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
AmericanEmpire
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:07 pm |
|
 |
| Heavy Crude |
 |
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 474
|
|
I don't see how anything the fed does will help to weather this storm. I think complete economic collapse is inevitable.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
strider3700
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:25 am |
|
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 2908 Location: Vancouver Island
|
|
prices are way up, savings are down, interest rate hikes are regular, Yet this past weekend consumers spent 22% more then they did last year. I don't think the fed has the ability to stop people from running themselves into the ground.
_________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Pops
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:23 am |
|
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 8178 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
|
dissimulo wrote: After all, most people who are not aware of peak oil are, at least to some degree, aware of our economic woes. Yet, most people don't see a crash coming. Therefore, there must at least be common arguments for how the US economy will survive these problems. What are they?
I don’t think as many consider the several problems as much as you think.
I also don’t think most people need an argument since they don’t consider the possibility of a substantial crash in the first place. The part of the population doing the most spending today has had little experience – even second hand, at any major upheavals in their lives. I have a family member in his late ‘30s considering pulling money from his home again – and compared to his friends he’s conservative.
Real Estate always goes up, right?
_________________ The best buy to prepare for peak oil is buying less.
Make a plan and work it. -- Me
www.MyGrandKidsFarm.com
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
AmericanEmpire
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:30 am |
|
 |
| Heavy Crude |
 |
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 474
|
Quote: Yet this past weekend consumers spent 22% more then they did last year. I don't think the fed has the ability to stop people from running themselves into the ground.
My god, and they haven't even gotten their real look at heating bills this year. I think alot of people are going to go down this winter. 
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
MonteQuest
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:05 pm |
|
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 14024 Location: Sedona, Arizona
|
DantesPeak wrote: Right, and keep in mind that by following option #3 interest costs keep accelerating. The $1 trillion that the US takes in during 2005 costs about $40 billion a year in interest - more or less forever - from now. That means the US must finance a greater and greater CAD every year if nothing else is done, or happens. No kidding... Nation's spending out of lineQuote: The federal budget deficit is now $319 billion. In other words, we had to borrow an additional $319 billion this year just to make ends meet, which is why the total amount owed by the government is higher than ever.
Riedl estimates that the annual budget shortfall will reach $873 billion 10 years from now. Two years after that, he predicts, the annual deficit will hit $1 trillion.
By the time that happens, Riedl's calculations show the national debt doubling to about $16 trillion, or a staggering 74 percent of the country's projected gross domestic product of $21.5 trillion.
"And it continues to worsen after that," Riedl said as he scrutinized his spreadsheet. "After 2017, we'll be looking at deficits of $2 trillion a year."
So, where will the money come from to cover this and build an entire renewable energy infrastructure while 88 million baby boomers retire on unfunded entitlements?
Hmm?
Link
_________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
DesertBear2
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:11 pm |
|
 |
| Intermediate Crude |
 |
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 593 Location: BlueRidgeVA
|
MonteQuest wrote: So, where will the money come from to cover this and build an entire renewable energy infrastructure while 88 million baby boomers retire on unfunded entitlements? Hmm?
The actual size of the gubbermint deficit is only part of the horror story. The other part is that most of it is currently financed in short-term lower-interest obligations....as short-term interest rates rise, the new debt + the re-issued older debt will have much higher "monthly payments".
If US debt is ever viewed like Argentine debt, sharply higher interest rates will be demanded by domestic and foreign lenders. Then the cost of refinancing all those old deficits will break the bank.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
NeoLotus
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:12 am |
|
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 128 Location: MN
|
dissimulo wrote: My question is: If the US economy is to survive just the non-PO problems we currently face (such as the consumer debt bubble, inflation, and the national debt) what will it take?
1) Getting rid of corrupt legislators.
2) Redistributing the wealth from the top 1% to the bottom 80%.
3) Taxing the crap out of mega-corporations to pay for the deficit.
4) Getting out of Iraq and cutting military spending.
5) Regulating CEO pay and insurance company profits.
6) Establishing single-payer universal health care.
7) Nixing the Federal Reserve.
8) Reinstating Usury Laws
9) Rescinding the Bankruptcy Law.
The big ones are numbers 1 & 2. The rest flow from that.
_________________ -We don't need an ownership society,
we need a 'give-a-shit' society!
------------------------
-Making judgments without intellectual justification is prejudice.
-We do not act rightly because we have virtue, we have virtue because we act rightly.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
strider3700
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:30 am |
|
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 2908 Location: Vancouver Island
|
|
If you try to do number 1 then those that are corrupt and in power will use that power to crush you and try and stop the movement.
If you try to do number 2 then all of the wealth will simply flee the country and leave behind a used up hulk thirdworld wasteland.
Even if you go through with it and manage to force things through then the pattern will be repeated elsewhere over and over until there is nowhere left. I don't know if a civiliation can be turned to crap and then recover enough to be worth turning to crap again. I doubt it
_________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Doly
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:13 am |
|
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 4026
|
NeoLotus wrote: 2) Redistributing the wealth from the top 1% to the bottom 80%. That is anything but simple, and the attempt is likely to cause chaos. NeoLotus wrote: 3) Taxing the crap out of mega-corporations to pay for the deficit.
That would bring the mega-corporations down (which I guess is what you're after), which would put their thousands of employees on the street, and put the economy belly-up besides.
The rest I think are technically possible. But I doubt they would solve US economy.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Daculling
|
Post subject: Re: How can the US weather our economic problems Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:20 am |
|
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 1347
|
NeoLotus wrote: 2) Redistributing the wealth from the top 1% to the bottom 80%.
Your talking civil war. At that point you might as well default, call your currency worthless and start over. But that would have some ramifications with our creditors I would imagine.
_________________ -Dac
Winners never quit and quiters never win, but those that never win and never quit are idiots.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: bravo91, Exabot [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 12 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
|