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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 319 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 22  Next
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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:35 am 
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From my corner of the world : Singapore property prices fell 13.8% in Q1 2009 compared to one year ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:47 am 
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Mortgage delinquencies soar in US.
Quote:
More U.S. consumers are falling behind on their mortgages, an indication that the housing market has yet to hit bottom, a top credit bureau executive told Reuters.

Dann Adams, president of U.S. Information Systems for Equifax Inc, reported that 7 percent of homeowners with mortgages were at least 30 days late on their loans in February, an increase of more than 50 percent from a year earlier.

reuters

Looks like there might be a rough patch ahead.
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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Here are some updates on the big picture.

http://www.economicreason.com/

Quote:
“Deflation is set in stone” is what you read sometimes. The argument goes roughly like this: The fiscal and monetary injections amounting to a few trillion are no match for the dozens of trillions of wealth destroyed by the crisis. The underlying logic is that as long as government programs are dwarfed by wealth destruction, only deflation can result.

This sounds logical, but it is not. In particular, some things are badly mixed up. Actually, inflation could probably result with government support being much smaller than wealth losses.

First, real estate, stock, and risky credit were overpriced at the onset of the financial market crisis – their valuations were not backed by an equivalent stream of future production. Note that wealth is nothing else than a claim on future production. Therefore, pre-crisis levels of asset prices did not reflect actual wealth – in fact, there was no chance that these overpriced assets could ever have been converted into future production at prevailing prices. Expectations reflected in asset prices were exaggerated. In order to balance future aggregate demand and supply of goods and services, either consumer prices would have had to rise, or asset prices would have had to fall. The latter happened.

Enter the government. By reinflating prices of worthless assets above their intrinsic value, false wealth is restored. Furthermore, by backing AIG and honouring bets which were not honourable from the beginning, even more false wealth is created. Trying to restore exaggerated expectations is probably a bad idea and could turn out very inflationary.

The second flaw in the introductory reasoning is that apples are compared to oranges. A dollar in wealth (losses) is not the same as a dollar in money supply, which is not the same as a dollar actually spent for goods or services. In particular, wealth and money supply are stock variables, while spending is a flow variable. Simply aggregating the headline amount of government measures and comparing them to estimated wealth losses is therefore useless at best, if not misleading, in order to assess future inflationary tendencies.


http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/04/global-derivatives-14-quadrillion-up-22.html

Quote:
In the ATCA briefing, "The Invisible One Quadrillion Dollar Equation" published in September 2008 we discussed the main categories of the quadrillion dollar derivatives market as quoted by the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland. Since then the quantum has grown significantly in certain crucial categories and the latest revised numbers follow:

1. Listed credit derivatives stood at USD 542 trillion, about the same as before; however

2. Over-The-Counter (OTC) derivatives stood in notional or face value at USD 863 trillion (UP +44%) and include:

a. Interest Rate Derivatives at about USD 458+ trillion (UP +16%);
b. Credit Default Swaps at about USD 57+ trillion (DOWN -1%);
c. Foreign Exchange Derivatives at about USD 62+ trillion (UP +10%);
d. Commodity Derivatives at about USD 13+ trillion (UP +44%);
e. Equity Linked Derivatives at about USD 10+ trillion (UP +17%); and
f. Unallocated Derivatives at about USD 81+ trillion (UP +14%).
The myth of the single bubble behind The Great Unwind -- manifest as the global credit crunch -- has essentially been dumped in the last few months and subprime mortgage default, a USD 1.5 trillion challenge within the USD 5 trillion mortgage based assets envelope, is seen as a component of a much larger overwhelming global crisis with unprecedented scale, speed, severity and synchronicity. The global crisis has wiped a staggering USD 50 trillion off the value of financial assets — currency, equity and bond markets worldwide — last year, according to the Asian Development Bank.

The truth that there are as many as "Eight Bubbles" [ATCA] at play and in the process of bursting together is understood to a greater extent now than in the past. We have gone from being able to “rescue the world” with less than USD 1 trillion in October 2008 to USD 11.6 trillion commitments in the US alone along with a further announcement of USD 1.2 trillion of quantitative easing by the US Fed in March 2009. There is a realisation worldwide including the G7 + BRIC + MISSAT that this is a USD 20 trillion problem and growing. As time goes by, the full extent of the collateral damage from the Quadrillion Play and 8 Bubbles burst is being revealed.


Actually he misses some of the bubbles out there. And I don't like calling them bubbles, because they're really just exponential growth/overshoot. Bubbles pop and you go back to normal. Exponential growth overshoots, and you collapse. Big difference.

Quote:
1. Subprime Mortgage linked Loans & Assets (USD 1.5 trillion) within Mortgage backed Assets (USD 5 trillion);
2. China, India, Eastern Europe and other Emerging Market Loans (USD 5 trillion);
3. Commodities (Commodity Derivatives at about USD 13 trillion);
4. Corporate bonds (USD 18 trillion);
5. Commercial (USD 22 trillion) and Residential property (USD 45 trillion);
6. Credit Cards Outstanding Debt (USD 4.5 trillion);
7. Currencies (Foreign Exchange Derivatives at about USD 62 trillion); and
8. Credit Default Swaps (USD 57 trillion) as a subset of all Derivatives (USD 1,405 Trillion).


He misses local, state, and federal pension funds, state budgets, municipal budgets, social security, medicare, insurance obligations such as annuities, etc. It's all going down.

Quote:
So, how much money are we talking about here? Well, the latest figures I have show Global GDP is running a little more than $60 trillion a year, so $1.4 quadrillion would equate to about 23 times world GDP (they show $45 trillion and 31 times GDP... I do not know which is correct - either way is unbelievable).


25-30 times the world's GDP. I hate to say this, but Obama just doesn't get it. He has screwed himself by laying down with the bankers.

We are so screwed.

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:16 am 
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I'm living with a friend right now who bought the current house at foreclosure auction last year for $200,000. It was valued by several agencies and the government for around $300,000 at the time. Currently, the price is up 10% to about $330,000. The East Durham area in which I reside is up 4-5% YOY still. Our unemployment is quite low (≈8%) with other districts even lower around 4-5%. After graduation, I'm seriously considering getting a part-time job to live around here, hoping things pick up. Overall, this is a great place to live - walkable and bikeable communities (largely), local organic food, good weather, good water supply, relatively low-density, good land, fairly stable economy.

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:31 am 
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HSBC faces crisis over US credit cards.
Quote:
HSBC faces a meltdown at its US credit card operations where around $50bn (ÂŁ34bn) has been lent to people with poor credit histories, say analysts.

Write-offs at the credit card arm of HSBC Finance Corporation (HFC), formerly Household, a sub-prime lender, could double to $10bn in 2009, according to brokers. Fears are growing that the bank could be forced to ask shareholders for more cash, on top of the ÂŁ12.5bn it raised during its recent rights issue designed to bolster its balance sheet.

Analysts at Société Générale said that the strong take-up of the share offer did not necessarily "translate into smooth sailing for HSBC over the next couple of years" as it faced the prospect of rising bad debt and sour loans. The bank is not yet out of the woods, added SocGen.

Of particular concern are loans outstanding at HFC's credit card business, which stood at $49.6bn last year - representing around two-thirds of all HSBC credit card loans. The HFC credit card operation wrote off $5.4bn in bad or doubtful loans in 2008, according to the annual report, but made a profit of $520m. But analysts say that the profit will be wiped out this year and the offshoot will plunge into the red.

HSBC refused to comment on the speculation but said the HFC provisions "would be impacted by factors such as US unemployment and wage growth".

There is no suggestion that HFC's problems will push HSBC as a whole into loss - its businesses outside the US are highly profitable. But the bank, led by Stephen Green, has admitted that its purchase of Household for $15bn in 2003 has destroyed about $10bn of shareholder value.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/apr/12/hsbc-credit-cards-us-business

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:30 pm 
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laato mentioned social security

2010 is 65 years from the end of ww2

ie the baby boomers around the planet starting to claim oldage pensions

most governments will struggle to fund these pensions especially as the numbers build

even more so if oil spikes in the next 2 years


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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:28 am 
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Location: Austin, TX. The last oasis in the last free state.
3aidlillahi wrote:
I'm living with a friend right now who bought the current house at foreclosure auction last year for $200,000. It was valued by several agencies and the government for around $300,000 at the time. Currently, the price is up 10% to about $330,000. The East Durham area in which I reside is up 4-5% YOY still. Our unemployment is quite low (≈8%) with other districts even lower around 4-5%. After graduation, I'm seriously considering getting a part-time job to live around here, hoping things pick up. Overall, this is a great place to live - walkable and bikeable communities (largely), local organic food, good weather, good water supply, relatively low-density, good land, fairly stable economy.


My brother graduated from Duke medical school and lives in Wake Forest now. I visited him and the area seems very nice. Durham is pretty blighted in many parts, but overall I liked the area. One thing I did not like, however, is that you must use the highways that connect all these mid-sized towns. To get from Raleigh to Durham to Wake Forest, etc you need to drive. There is a lot of driving that is needed to commute around there.


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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:50 am 
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In UK 2 000 000 households now "underwater" {http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8003028.stm}

Quote:
Falling house prices mean that two million households have either negative equity, or too little equity to finance a house move, lenders have said.
...
With lenders still restricting their lending because of a shortage of mortgage funds, few are currently prepared to accept a deposit of only 10% from anyone buying a house...only 106 mortgage deals requiring a deposit of 10% or less, while more than two thirds of the 1,485 deals available asked customers to put up a deposit of at least 25%.


Would you be able to put down 25% towards a house?

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:53 am 
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IslandCrow wrote:

Would you be able to put down 25% towards a house?


I can put up 100% of the price, if you will sell it to me for $1. :-) The problem of course is that the Banks won't sell the properties at the Market value, only the Make Believe value they have on their balance sheets.

Honestly, I think you would be nuts to buy any property right now on a mortgage, I would only buy something I could negotiate an outright purchase of, and that would only be to get rid of worthless toilet paper I have accumulated. If its cheap enough to buy so I can walk away from it if I have to because the Property taxes are raised on me, I would buy something rather than Squatting on it. However, no way in HELL would I take on any debt at all to buy a piece of property, its probably going to lose more paper money value, then I am stuck in the hole for that. Besides, taking a Morgage I am paying some Bankster somewhere a nice chunk of change every year for loaning me some money, supporting his sorry ass. I am NOT gonna do that. Even if McMansions sold for $50K and I had $25K, I wouldn't take a $25K Mortgage to buy it. Long as people REFUSE to take on debt from banksters, the banksters will STARVE. They wil HAVE to sell off their foreclosed on properties at firesale prices, just to get them off their books as tax liabilities. When the local properties around here drop to around $20K, I might buy one. I sure as hell won't buy a $500K McMansion up here on a mortgage. How stupid is that?

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:43 am 
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Reverse Engineer said:

Quote:
I can put up 100% of the price, if you will sell it to me for $1. :-) The problem of course is that the Banks won't sell the properties at the Market value, only the Make Believe value they have on their balance sheets.



The reason that banks are not marking homes to market is that most of these loan bundles, either MBS or mortgage packages, are backed by CDS insurance. The lieu holders are often better off trashing the entire property than selling it at a loss. Since the US government has now become the world’s largest monoline (note AIG) this will continue until Uncle Willy can no longer pay the bills. Basically the federal government, via the Treasury and FED, are guaranteeing the whole mess will come down in one big pile!


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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:06 am 
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Ilargi posted this one on Automatic Earth from Lendman. Good long read.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/barack-obama-crime-boss/


Quote:
Financial expert and investor safety advocate Martin Weiss is most critical of all. He calls bank stress tests “FLIM-FLAM” in accusing Washington of hiding the true condition of the nation’s 19 largest banks.

Key economic indicators like GDP contraction and unemployment are far worse than stress test parameters. “Our own government is clearly cooking the books — using (false) criteria to deceive you; hoping you’ll trust banks that are clearly hanging by a thread.”

On May 4, they’ll announce the results — jerry-rigged to present an illusion of solvency, but clearly a deceptive lie. The economy is sinking, not stabilizing, let alone recovering. The administration is bailing out bankers while wrecking the economy and millions of households. Why isn’t Washington addressing the tough questions, he asks. Because the answers have them “terrified,” so they play for time while home foreclosures are exploding, factories are sitting idle, consumption keeps falling, yet they hope conditions will improve.

No one asks:

what if states and cities can’t provide vital services;
hospitals have to close down “due to disruptions in insurance payments;”
“supermarket shelves are emptied because trucking companies can’t get short-term loans to stay in business;”
utilities “are crippled as the crisis kills the revenues they count on from corporations;” and
“soaring deficits drive interest rates sky-high and gut the dollar, driving the cost of living through the roof.”
What if one day we discover America is no longer America. What if we realize that day is today.

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:47 am 
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I'd like to look a bit forward, if I may, & discuss the next 2 punches in the face our economy is about to suffer. In the last 12-18 months we took a massive punch to the face called "subprime" (that's what the MSM calls it...I call it RMBS). The next punch is comming at us now & that is CMBS (Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities)...Followed by credit card debt.

Sooooooo, in the next 12-18 months we're going to have to TRIPPLE all the bail-outs & stimulas packages? 8O

TRIPPLE all the TARPs & TALFs etc...etc..? It isn't possible.

Here's a snip from an article...it doesn't cover everything I just mentioned, but it does talk about the CMBS situation developing.

Quote:
That's because even if the banks have temporarily put their troubles behind them, the next shoe is now lining up to drop.

I'm talking, of course, about a deteriorating commercial real estate outlook, where all signs now are pointing to a much steeper decline.

In fact, just last week the industry was hit with a virtual bombshell, as time finally ran out on General Growth Properties Inc. (GGP), the second largest mall owner in the country with more than 200 properties. On Thursday, they filed the biggest real estate bankruptcy in U.S. history after amassing $27 billion in debt during the run up.

That makes GGP the equivalent of a dead canary in a coal mine, as this cycle of distress will undoubtedly take others down with it. General Growth Properties will certainly not suffer alone.

"This is kind of the beginning of the end," Dan Fasulo of Real Capital Analytics said. "This bankruptcy will drive down the values of mall assets in the United States. It's going to put, I believe, more supply on the market than can be absorbed by investors."

http://www.examiner.com/x-1528-Baltimore-Personal-Finance-Examiner~y2009m4d20-Commercial-real-estate-outlook-Green-shoots-meet-reality

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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:50 am 
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Seahorse talked about this very thing last year. 8O


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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:17 am 
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RonMN wrote:
TRIPLE all the TARPs & TALFs etc...etc..? It isn't possible.



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 Post subject: Re: Housing and Economic Collapse - In Progress #4
New postPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:57 am 
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RonMN wrote:
I'd like to look a bit forward, if I may, & discuss the next 2 punches in the face our economy is about to suffer. In the last 12-18 months we took a massive punch to the face called "subprime" (that's what the MSM calls it...I call it RMBS). The next punch is comming at us now & that is CMBS (Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities)...Followed by credit card debt.

Sooooooo, in the next 12-18 months we're going to have to TRIPPLE all the bail-outs & stimulas packages? 8O

TRIPPLE all the TARPs & TALFs etc...etc..? It isn't possible.


It doesn't seem possible, but then it didn't seem possible to double the deficit and we have done that, so why wouldn't it be possible to quadruple it?

Admittedly, its hard to imagine just how Congress will vote in say another $4T budget next year and then use the funny money to buy every last Mall out there in foreclosure. USA Properties, worlds largest Mall Operator. LOL. However, if we can buy Houses and Banks, in principle there is no reason we can't buy all the Malls and Hotels also.

What is the alternative to Tripling or Quadrupling the Funny Money? Let everyone go Bankrupt of course, but then the whole ball of wax comes unglued and that is fire they don't want to jump into from the frying pan of astronomical deficits.

The coming year should be interesting in any event. What's the next Big Shoe to Drop after General Growth?

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