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dinopello
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Post subject: THE Peak Oil & the MSM ('08) Thread (merged) Archived Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:31 am |
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3826 Location: The Urban Village
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BitterSweetCrude
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Post subject: Re: WashPost Economist on Oil Prices - Live Discussion @11 E Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:05 am |
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 153 Location: OHIO, USA
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My question:
Instead of blaming Exxon for making money selling oil, a fast-depleting non-renewable resource, why aren't you talking about the real problem: global oil production is at it's peak and will go into decline in the next decade. Where is the public discussion about our future in a post-carbon world? We have nothing after oil! Hydrogen is not an energy source, it's a way to store energy, where do we get the energy?
I think it's very damaging to the public to play a blame game instead of discussing this issue! It's hurting America to feed the public this kind of pin-the-blame-on-the-someone-else. I get so disheartened at politics and media pundits whenever I see this kind of disinformation and blame tactics.
We ought to be holding a serious discussion of how we can manage our transition away from oil, this isn't going to happen with 99 cent gasoline.
So I guess my question is: why are politicians and the media so brain dead on this issue? Wake up!
Thanks for taking the time to address my deep concern.
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dinopello
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Post subject: Re: WashPost Economist on Oil Prices - Live Discussion @11 E Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:50 am |
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3826 Location: The Urban Village
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Peak Oil is Scientology according this 'Economist'.
Quote: Arlington, VA: Steven,
There is no normal, there is only reality. The reality is that we have spent the last 60 years and a considerable amount of resources building a society of the like that has never been seen in all of human history. It is a society based around the consumption of large ratios of a resource that was 'discovered' about 150 years ago (Colonel Drake drilled the first well in the US in 1859). For most people, there is no choice but to consume large amounts of fossil fuel based energy in order to survive. This has allowed us to obtain a standard of living in terms of material goods never before seen. This is due to petroleum being such an enormously valuable find (the result of millions of years of concentrated sun energy). Our depletion rate (use) of this has grown (doubled in most cases) every decade as population grows and we fling more and more of our settlement patterns further away from destinations and houses get bigger etc. Well, we are now faced with the time when supplies will likely no longer be able to increase (google peak oil). Whether this is now or 5 or 10 years from now doesn't really matter. Can an economist grasp the consequences of this ? Do some actual research and discover for yourself. Good luck to you.
Steven Pearlstein: What is it with you peak oil people. Its like scientology. Its a wonderful theory that the world is about to run out of oil, and it may be true. But the certainty with which you state your opinion, when it is so obvious that you are talking about a subject about which NOBODY can be so certain, raises lots of question about your credibility. and I see your question got in too: Quote: Columbus OH: Instead of blaming Exxon for making money selling oil, a fast-depleting non-renewable resource, why aren't you talking about the real problem: global oil production is at it's peak and will go into decline in the next decade. Where is the public discussion about our future in a post-carbon world? We have nothing after oil! Hydrogen is not an energy source, it's a way to store energy, where do we get the energy?
I think it's very damaging to the public to play a blame game instead of discussing this issue! It's hurting America to feed the public this kind of pin-the-blame-on-the-someone-else. I get so disheartened at politics and media pundits whenever I see this kind of disinformation and blame tactics.
We ought to be holding a serious discussion of how we can manage our transition away from oil, this isn't going to happen with 99 cent gasoline.
So I guess my question is: why are politicians and the media so brain dead on this issue? Wake up!
Thanks for taking the time to address my deep concern.
Steven Pearlstein: Gee, our Outlook section two weeks ago had a big front-page splashy display for an essay by the founder of Greenpace about how nuclear energy ought to be high on the options list again. The President is talking about biomass and ethanol. Liberals have been talking about wind and solar for as long as I can remember. And on the facts, you are simply wrong: there is plenty of oil and gas out there to be tapped that can keep us going for decades, even as we begin shifting over to other energy sources as the price of the GRADUALLY depleting resource rises.
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BitterSweetCrude
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Post subject: Re: WashPost Economist on Oil Prices - Live Discussion @11 E Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:11 am |
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 153 Location: OHIO, USA
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well, i guess that's that folks. he solved the problem. anyone want a ride in my new hummer to my exurban mcmansion? i have gas heating so it wont be cold!
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dinopello
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Post subject: Re: WashPost Economist on Oil Prices - Live Discussion @11 E Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:21 am |
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3826 Location: The Urban Village
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and, he keeps going and going
Quote: Arlington, VA: "NOBODY can be so certain, raises lots of question about your credibility."
Steven,
Do you believe that the US Oil production peaked in 1972 ? Do you believe that 38 of the 50 top Oil producing nations have also peaked ? It's not at all about running out. This shows that you haven't bothered to even look into this topic. Check out the DOE, US Army Corps, DoD reports on the subject before misleading people so.
Steven Pearlstein: Your analysis does not include the supply effects of a sustained price at $70 a barrel. This is NOT a static situation. On the one hand he thinks OPEC and oil are maniuplating the prices up and on the other he implies that *sustained* prices over $70 will stimulate supply. I hope for his sake he has a third hand . [/quote]
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DantesPeak
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Post subject: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:53 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6333 Location: New Jersey
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There it is in black and white: peak-oil theory has been vindicated.
Quote: Oil Touches $100 a Barrel on Supply Concern, Increased Demand
By Mark Shenk and Nesa Subrahmaniyan
Jan. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil rose to $100 a barrel for the first time in New York as record global fuel consumption threatens to outpace production.
Higher prices have been cast as vindication for a theory that the world has reached the maximum rate of oil production as explorers fail to discover major new fields to replace aging deposits being tapped in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran.
While Saudi Arabian Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi and Exxon Mobil Corp. President Rex Tillerson have said oil supplies will last for decades, energy traders are increasingly debating the amount of available crude.
Investors who back the peak-oil theory, such as Boone Pickens, a Dallas hedge fund manager and former oil executive, have led the price rally of the past two years. Pickens, chairman of BP Capital LLC, correctly predicted in 2004 that oil prices would top $60 a barrel in 2005 and in early 2006 said oil could reach $90 to $100 a barrel within two years.
Last Updated: January 2, 2008 16:02 EST
Simmons says: $100 oil remarkedly cheap
Bloomberg Video
_________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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roccman
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:55 pm |
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| Peak Oil Prophet |
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 4136 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
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DantesPeak wrote: Simmons says: $100 oil remarkedly cheap Bloomberg Video
Roccman also says $100 oil remarkedly cheap.
_________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
We are going back to roccland - me
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mattduke
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:45 pm |
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 2576
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yesplease
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:55 pm |
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 3650
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Who else thinks it'll be lambasted and vindicated several times in the next few years as reported by major outlets? Nothing sells ads like a controversy. 
_________________
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
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ColossalContrarian
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:02 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 892
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So now it can be referred to as Peak Oil Theorem?
Awesome… on my birthday too!
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Armageddon
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:29 pm |
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3692 Location: St.Louis, Mo
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Did the second guy really say high oil prices aren't having any effect on the global economy yet ? Does he realize that people have their credit cards maxed out and have refi'd their homes and are basically out of credit ? I am sure this has nothing to do with these oil prices. It isn't a coincidence that the the timing of an economic collapse and PO are happening at the same time. There is no way to grow a fiat based monetary system without growing your energy source. It's amazing how people do not understand this correlation.
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seldom_seen
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:55 pm |
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| Fission |
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 2333
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Armageddon wrote: It isn't a coincidence that the the timing of an economic collapse and PO are happening at the same time. There is no way to grow a fiat based monetary system without growing your energy source.
Yup.
We are possibly at or near the end of economic growth for petroleum based civilization.
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Cobra_Strike
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:20 am |
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| Intermediate Crude |
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:00 am Posts: 506 Location: Pacific Northwest
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I hate it when they say high prices vindicate.....and low prices disprove.
It is totally aside from the issue of production peaking.
_________________ We stand here, as the light of other days surrounds us.
"Hail the Dead"
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Starvid
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:56 am |
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Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 3046 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Armageddon wrote: There is no way to grow a fiat based monetary system without growing your energy source. It's amazing how people do not understand this correlation. Of course you can. It's called efficiency.
Oil production fell by 14 % in 4 years...
It didn't even plateau...
And yet the economy kept growing.
And even if it weren't, no one is saying we won't be able to use more energy in the future than we do now. It's the liquid fuels which are peaking.
_________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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kjmclark
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Post subject: Re: Bloomberg News: "Peak-Oil Theory" Vindicated Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:55 am |
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 434
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Another good sign: yesterday the NYTimes ran the obligatory story on high commodity prices, in particular the $100 per barrel futures price. Article is here.
The good part? They didn't ask Yergin. Two of their interviewees were appropriately dire, the other two couldn't resist putting some pollyanna spin on it. But at least they didn't ask Yergin.
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