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 Post subject: Peak stove pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:26 am 
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No, not really. But there is a shortage. So many people are rushing to buy stoves - wood, coal, and pellet - that there's a shortage of stoves and of fuel for them. The pellet manufacturers are begging people to buy only a month's worth, rather than enough for the whole winter.

I guess this is demand destruction at work, as far as natural gas and heating oil goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:36 am 
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Location: Southwest WI
watch the prices climb!


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:01 am 
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Apparently, those pellets are made of sawdust left over from the furniture manufacturing business. Which suggests the supply of sawdust might be limited, particularly if the housing boom cools off and people start buying less furniture.

Of course, the pellet manufacturers could make their own sawdust, but that would be more expensive.

Pellet stoves also require electricity to run, which might be a pretty big drawback this winter.


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:13 am 
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I bought a corn burning stove in August. It was the last one the dealer had in stock. He told me he had another guy coming in that afternoon that would probably be disappointed.

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The road goes on forever and the party never ends - REK


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:53 am 
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Location: Southwest WI
Only thing with burning corn is that it takes natural gas to grow that corn (and also diesel)...

Pellet stoves are sold out pretty much around here...woodstoves still be in healthy supply!

I've wondered about pellet manafacturing process. The good pellets also seem to come from the Pacific NW. I think if the pellet plant was close to a hydroelectic source, they could be produced cheaply...


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:51 am 
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Agree with you on the problems with burning corn. However, I've got some acreage and could plant and grow an acre of corn by hand to heat the house if I needed to.

Woodstoves are the best bet IMHO. Problem for me is that my newly planted trees need another 15 years of growing time.

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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:04 am 
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I believe we ship pellets from Canada to Europe to use it to make green electricity over here (mix it with coal). It seems a bit wasteful to ship it halfway around the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:27 pm 
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Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts
This works for me:
http://www.gratewalloffire.com/
as a fireplace enhancer.


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:23 pm 
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We've got a big pellet mill here in town. They chip up small logs and use the chips to make the pellets, they don't use furniture sawdust. I'm sure somewhere there is a mill that does that because they have a big furniture manufacturer nearby, but that's the exception not the rule.

I know most of the local production is "exported" from Oregon downn to California because we're the closest pellet mill to California, seems like the business is doing well, I was talking to the manager and they're going to be doubling the size of the operation in the near future.


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:18 pm 
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Location: 39° 39' N 77° 77' W or thereabouts
Quote:
Peak Wood (link)
21st October 2005, 9:17 pm by Jason Godesky

...skip...

allow me to explain with an example from our own history: the end of the Bronze Age, the beginning of the Iron Age, and a crisis we might today call, "Peak Wood."

...skip...

Richard Cowen describes the situation well in his essay on the Bronze Age:
Quote:
Egypt, which has practically no trees, was trading with Byblos (on the Lebanese coast) for cedar for shipbuilding, temple construction, and furniture-making as early as 3000 BC. But perhaps the most famous documentation of the shortage of wood around the ancient Mediterranean is the Epic of Gilgamesh ... Stripped of sex and violence, the Gilgamesh epic is about deforestation. Gilgamesh and his companion go off to cut down a cedar forest, braving the wrath of the forest god Humbaba, who has been entrusted with forest conservation. It's interesting that Gilgamesh is cast as the hero, even though he has the typical logger mentality: cut it down, and never mind the consequences. The repercussions for Gilgamesh are severe: he loses his chance of immortality, for example. But the consequences for Sumeria were even worse. It's clear that the geography and climate of southern Mesopotamia would not provide the wood fuel to support a Bronze Age civilization that worked metal, built large cities, and constructed canals and ceremonial centers that used wood, plaster, and bricks. Most timber would have to be imported from the surrounding mountains, and deforestation there, in a climate that receives occasional torrential storms, would have led to severe erosion and run-off. The loss of Gilgamesh's immortality may be a literary reflection of the realization that Sumeria could not be sustained.


...snip...


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:26 pm 
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Why are people spending money on corn and pellets stoves? Why not buy a traditional wood burning stove, it would be cheaper and you would not have to rely on "the system" to bring it to you, assuming you have enough wood nearby ofcourse. Also those pellets are manufactured, I can't see how they are more efficient than wood with requires minimal processing.


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:40 pm 
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pellet stoves are about 10% to 20% more efficient than high efficiency wood stoves.
The pellets are easier and cleaner to handle than the wood
The hopper for the pellets lets the stove run continously with out having to feed it (for a few days anyways)
And pellet stoves don't require a chimney, just a PVC tube out the wall will due.

The pellets can also be made from Switch grass which grows almost anywhere and doesn't deplete the soil.

however $400 to $4000 is a pretty big jump to justify the benefits. Lets hope the price goes down by the time they move from Novelty item to neccessity

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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:49 pm 
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BabyPeanut wrote:
This works for me:
http://www.gratewalloffire.com/
as a fireplace enhancer.


k, I don't get it, what's the big secret of this fantastic grate
looks like an ordinary grate to me


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:24 pm 
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Location: Southwest WI
PVC for exhaust on a pellet stove? nOT ON the ones ive looked @ from Englander, PelletPro, etc...you need a smaller diamater insulated metal pipe (expensive stuff!)...and pellets are super low in moisture, which really helps burn it better ... I've sat right next to the exhaust pipe from my brothers pellet stove and you see no smoke and the smell is fantastic (probably kill ya if you breath it in too much)...

Good technology, but woodstoves are probably better because you can burn stumps, twigs, furniture, tables, chairs, computers...;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Peak pellets?
New postPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:28 am 
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Location: southern Wisconsin
I had a small Jotul woodstove installed in my fireplace opening last week. I looked at pellet stoves, but found the following problems:

1. Dependent on supplier for pellets
2. Pellets cost more than wood, at least around here
3. The feeding mechanism is mechanical. It requires routine maintenance. If you are not handy, that means hiring a specialist.
4. The feeding mechanism requires electricity.

The other factor in favor for wood, in my case, is that I have access to a significant supply which costs me no hard cash (barter).


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