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OilsNotWell
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:02 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1257
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Quote: Dr. Jerome Corsi, WorldNetDaily.com:
Iran has now defied the E.U.-3 by resuming uranium processing at Isfahan. During the months of negotiations, Iran has put in place somewhere between 2,000 and 4,000 advanced centrifuges. Just as soon as Iran gets enough uranium hexafluoride produced at Isfahan, Natanz will be re-opened to begin processing the uranium hexafluoride to weapons-grade uranium.
What has the Bush administration done about it? READ MORE
As I predicted in "Atomic Iran," the E.U.-3 negotiations were bound to fail, simply because the mullahs were playing the Europeans for fools. They only stopped enriching uranium because they had technical problems at Isfahan and Natanz, so they wanted to buy time.
What will happen next? Iran will make an atomic bomb. They already have proved their Shahab-3 missile is solid-fuel ready. This reduces the launch time to virtually nothing, making the Shahab-3 harder to hit by the Patriot and Arrow anti-missile systems we and the Israelis have in place. A missile is most reliably downed immediately after launch. Hitting a missile when it is in the final stages of heading to earth is like hitting a bullet, with a bullet – almost impossible. The Shahab-3 will easily reach Tel Aviv.
I wrote in "Atomic Iran" that terrorists do not stockpile weapons, they use them. Once the mullahs have atomic bombs ready to go, we run the risk of waking up to an Atomic 9-11 surprise. On some sunny, beautiful morning we may find out the mullahs have atomic bombs only because we see a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv or New York City.
I also wrote in "Atomic Iran" that the technical problems terrorist sleeper cells face in getting an improvised nuclear device are largely solved once a terrorist regime such as Iran can manufacture the bomb and ship it into the United States in containers. Our ports are still far from secure. Will we someday be reading the Atomic 9-11 Commission Report and pointing fingers that the Bush administration failed to gather the intelligence that prevented a nuclear explosion in one of our major cities?
The likelihood is that we will, unless the mullahs are stopped. This is not alarmist fear-mongering. Even if the mainstream media does not want you to hear it, terrorists have discussed and plotted nuclear attacks in an American city for years. It took years to perfect the techniques to hijack airplanes and fly them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Terrorists are patient and Osama bin Laden believes history is on his side.
With the election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as president, the hard-liners in Iran are in full control. Naming the former deputy intelligence minister, Mostafa Pourmohammadi, as interior minister is a clear sign that the brutal suppression of any internal dissent will be intensified in months to come.
The hunger strike of Akbar Ganji has continued since June 11, with almost no international attention. Why isn't Akbar Ganji achieving the international fame of a Nelson Mandela, a Andrei Sakharov, or a Vaclav Havel?
The answer is simple: The mullahs have over $200 million a day in oil windfall profits and they have bought the best talent money can buy worldwide – a legion of lawyers, public-relations consultants, lobbyists, and media consultants are on the mullah payroll, including many here in the United States.
The mullahs mean to press their radical Islamic revolution against the world and they are determined that nuclear weapons are the path to their world historic destiny of success. Who is going to stop them now? Was President Bush's Second Inaugural Address just meaningless rhetoric, or will he really stand with the Iranians who want a free Iran? Right now, the mullahs are winning. They are consolidating their power and moving toward nuclear weapons capability.
The opportunity for peaceful internal change – the best option, the one we should have pursued with prompt and meaningful funding to serious opposition groups – is slipping by fast. We can go to the Security Council, but that will be worthless. China and Russia will block any meaningful actions. Besides, with oil at $66 a barrel, nobody in the world is going to take more sanctions against Iran seriously. Unfortunately, we are now headed toward one of two undesirable outcomes – military confrontation, or the mullahs will soon have all the atomic weapons they want. There's not much else left. All this is proceeding along the track I predicted events would take when I wrote "Atomic Iran."
President Bush's legacy is on the line with Iran. His father did not remove Saddam Hussein when he had the chance in the first [Persian] Gulf War. If President Bush does not stop the mullahs from having a nuclear weapon, the world will soon face nuclear blackmail and the blame will be laid on President Bush's doorstep. President Bush is allowing the mullahs to lie and cheat their way to nuclear weapons, on his watch.
Relying on the Europeans was a bad idea – the mullahs just gained time. Let's hope President Bush gets his resolve soon and decides not to make Iran somebody else's problem.
For those not familiar with this rhetoric and its parallels to Iraq, google PNAC, Project for a New American Century, and see Syria, Iran, and perhaps even Saudi Arabia in the crosshairs for a wider regional war to secure access to and control of petroleum resources, prevent collapse of the dollar as a reserve currency, award fat reconstruction contracts, justify continual massive defense spending, and basically sustain and feed empire and protect and expand Israel's interests at the same time.
Last edited by OilsNotWell on Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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gardener
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:04 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 15 Location: New York City
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Quote: I'm not familiar with Rigzone, but to me, this seems like a rather draconian way to silence debate on the abiotic oil theory. Now there will surely be those who will point to this as evidence that the "powers that be" don't want the public to know about abiotic oil.
This is the flashing neon sign that this guy has no idea what he is talking about. If he had a deep interest in knowing what is going on in the oil and gas business, he would know rigzone.
Congrats on geting swiftboated, peak oilers.
_________________ Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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MonteQuest
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:45 pm |
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 14024 Location: Sedona, Arizona
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Please do not post abiotic oil threads to the Peak oil Discussion forum.
We have a 25 page Official Abiotic Oil Thread here:
http://www.peakoil.com/forum11.html
You too, Matt.
I'll let it perk for a while in Current Events.
_________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
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MattSavinar
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:52 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1984
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MattSavinar
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:57 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1984
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DantesPeak
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:44 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6333 Location: New Jersey
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Matt - you've been mentioned in Congress this evening by Congressman Bartlett. He recommends reading about your "audacious" view of PO.
Abiotic oil has not come up in the discussion of PO. 
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MattSavinar
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:48 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1984
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DantesPeak wrote: Matt - you've been mentioned in Congress this evening by Congressman Bartlett. He recommends reading about your "audacious" view of PO. Abiotic oil has not come up in the discussion of PO. 
Link?
BTW, I've emailed Bartlett's staff to see if he would be willing to do an interview. I'm more interested (at this point) in what he tells his grandchildren about our predicament than public policy stuff.
Best,
Matt
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MattSavinar
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:51 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1984
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MattSavinar
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:56 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1984
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MattSavinar wrote: http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS
as of 6:48 pm pacific time, cspan is streaming it.
Best,
Matt
he's done. it's 6:52 pm.
Oh well.
Best,
Matt
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DantesPeak
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:23 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6333 Location: New Jersey
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MattSavinar wrote: MattSavinar wrote: http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS
as of 6:48 pm pacific time, cspan is streaming it.
Best,
Matt he's done. it's 6:52 pm. Oh well. Best, Matt
Aren't you entitled to at least 15 minutes of fame? 
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VMA131Marine
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:46 am |
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 57
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MattSavinar wrote: MonteQuest wrote: Please do not post abiotic oil threads to the Peak oil Discussion forum. We have a 25 page Official Abiotic Oil Thread here: http://www.peakoil.com/forum11.htmlYou too, Matt. I'll let it perk for a while in Current Events. My apologies. BTW, Mr. Corsi is on a "peak oil is cacka" writing binge, often pumping out an article every day: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/archi ... HOR_ID=246Best, Matt I noted two statements in his latest article which show complete ignorance of the subject: Quote: The transformation from "kerogen" to "fossil fuels" appears to be more a matter of faith, rather than an observed process that can be described in a precise chemical formula such that we can replicate in a laboratory the process by which the compound is produced. and Quote: Has anyone ever taken a flask of downed flora or dead protoplasm and produced a hydrocarbon fuel out of the mixture, or is this a process for alchemy?
The first statement is just ridiculous given that there has been extensive work done to develop the kerogen bearing shale oil resources of the Green River Basin and, even though the pilot projects have been mostly economic failures, the process that converts kerogen to oil by heating is not in question. It has been done; it is demonstrably repeatable.
The second statement ignores the fact that there is an operating pilot plant in Missouri that converts waste chicken and other animal byproducts (would that qualify as dead protoplasm?) to oil. Other than an apparently obnoxious odour produced by the processing plant, that process seems to work too.
"Dr." Corsi is also woefully ignorant of the laws of thermodynamics, failing to understand that it applies to closed systems. The organic matter that ultimately forms oil takes energy (heat and pressure) from its surroundings, hence its entropy can decrease at the expense of increased entropy of the "system" with no violation of the second law. Furthermore, if you take his argument about the second law on its face then it also rules out the very 'abiotic oil' that his articles argue in favour of.
What's his next argument going to be? That diamonds aren't lumps of carbon heated and compressed over millenia to a lower state of entropy?
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Leanan
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:05 am |
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 4673
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Oil does not come from dinosaurs. Well, there may be a few in the mix, but most oil comes from other organic matter. Usually microscopic marine life. When people say that oil comes from dead dinosaurs, they are either mistaken, or speaking figuratively.
But Corsi takes it literally. He thinks the name "fossil fuel" means we think oil is made from dinosaur fossils. He claims the fact that oil is found underwater means that it can't be really be a fossil fuel, because dinosaurs couldn't live that far underwater! 
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VMA131Marine
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:18 am |
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 57
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The abiotic oil proponents like Corsi can easily make a case for at least some oil, beyond trace amounts, being abiotic by using their theory to predict and find oil in a location that the "fossil" theory says it can't exist. The simple fact is, though, that if abiotic oil exists then the major petroleum companies would be actively trying to exploit it. The financial incentives for doing so would be too great not to.
One thing that the abiotic theory has not illuminated is why the combination of carbonaceous rocks, water, and heat and pressure at depth would produce oil and not just methane. Whereas the formation of oil from organic matter involves the breaking down of long molecules like proteins into shorter hydrocarbon chains abiotic oil theory requires the creation of long hydrocarbon chains from much simpler molecules. On the other hand, I'd have far fewer problems with the supposition of abiotic methane than I do with abiotic oil. Methane seems to be very common in the Solar System and the Universe implying that there are abiotic ways of creating it. Is there any evidence for abiotic methane on Earth?
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VMA131Marine
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:25 am |
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 57
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Fascinating! Considering my previous post in this thread about the possibility of abiotic methane, Jerome Corsi's latest anti-Peak Oil missive on WND would seem to indicate he is following this thread and others.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=47471
The problem is that he expounds on a single example that supports his thesis while ignoring the vast body of evidence that says the thesis is wrong or at least not the principal explanation for the fossil fuel deposits we see around the planet. In all the abiotic oil articles I have read, I have yet to see any quantitative (ie testable, which would be a prerequisite for having a provable theory) predictions about how much oil we should find and where it should be found. It should be eminently clear that if oil is abiotic the net production rate cannot be anywhere close to the current consumption rate of 30 Gb/yr.
Assuming that, in fact, abiotic oil is produced at our current rate of consumption for the purposes of a simple analysis, and there's no reason for choosing this rate other than convenience, and assuming that abiotic oil has been produced for half of the planets 4.5 billion year life (for no reason other than that the geological processes which are presumed to produce abiotic oil have been ongoing for at least that long) then a quick calculation shows that the Earth would have produced 6.9X10^19 barrels of oil.
That, by the way, is 1% of the planet's total volume, and enough oil to cover the planet's surface to a depth of 72km - for comparison the maximum depth of the oceans is about 11km at the Mariana's Trench and if you spread the oceans evenly over the surface of the planet, the water depth would be about 2.6 km. So, this is a problem for abiotic oil theory, even if you can come up with a chemical mechanism that works. Is there an equilibrium chemical process that can produce methane and the longer hydrocarbon molecules in the proportions that are observed in existing crude oil deposits? And, if so, why are natural gas fields found at greater depths than oil fields? Gas being much less dense and therefore more bouyant than oil, it should rise to the surface faster and be found in shallower formations than oil if abiotic oil theory is correct. These issues exist of course in addition to the other problems for abiotic oil including specific biological markers and that oil is only found in or near sedimentary formations with a suitable geological trap.
Finally, at the end of the article, Corsi uses this quote:
Quote: Thomas Gold himself made the point on page 85 of his 1998 book: "Nobody has yet synthesized crude oil or coal in the lab from a beaker of algae or ferns." He once again completely ignores the Renewable Environmental Resources plant in Carthage, MO that is essentially doing what Gold said has not been done: http://www.res-energy.com/technology/index.aspRES's description of how the process works is even more enlightening: Quote: How It Works TCP emulates the earth’s natural geothermal process, whereby organic material is converted into fossil fuel under conditions of extreme heat and pressure over millions of years. TCP mimics the earth’s system using pipes and by controlling temperature and pressure to reduce the bio-remediation process from millions of years to mere hours. TCP breaks down organic polymers (chains of small molecules) into their smallest units, and reforms them into new combinations to produce clean fuels.
Oops!
Dr Russ
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Free
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Post subject: Re: Jerome Corsi Versus PeakOil.com Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:06 am |
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 1344 Location: Europe
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One can not emphasize this point often enough that it doesn't matter for the PO-dilemma if fossil fuels are created by dead dinosaurs, abiotic processing or the energy fairy - as long as the rate of replenishment doesn't match the rate of extraction.
And since the overwhelming evidence of known history of rate of production and discovery seems to suggest that this is the case, there is no need to get ensnarled into such a futile debate.
After all, if the reservoirs are replenished at a sufficient rate through abiotic creation of fossil fuels, why for example doesn't seem this to be the case in the probably best documented oil-producing country in the world, the USA? It would be silly to assume that oil is being recreated everwhere else but there - especially since we all know that it is gods own country.
It is clear to every sane person that this is a smoke screen debate with the sole purpose of creating an impression in the naive public of a fierce conflict within the scientific community when in fact there isn't one.
Similar to other politically motivated agendas like "intelligent design" or the denial of human-induced global warming. They are the laughing stock of all scientists who deserve that name.
The debate is irrelevant, and so is Corsi. He is the equivalent of a scientific troll. Don't feed the trolls.
_________________ "Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave."
Karl Kraus
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