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View unanswered posts | View active topics
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AirlinePilot
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Post subject: Aviation Fuel price records Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:44 am |
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3333 Location: South of Atlanta
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AirlinePilot
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:11 am |
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3333 Location: South of Atlanta
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Mods, could we please make this sticky? I dont see an option for that.
Thanks
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dohboi
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:36 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 2096
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Thanks for this, airlinepilot. I second your request to make this sticky.
I have been wondering since this last run up: How are the airlines staying in business? I had spoken to some industry experts a couple years ago about this on a call-in radio show (sorry, I can't remember their names now, but they seemed pretty legit), and they claimed that $60/bbl oil would pretty much sink the whole airline industry.
I know there's no taxes on airplane fuel and they get various other kinds of government assistance, but shouldn't we still be seeing more companies going under at these prices?
And what happens when the industry is no longer commercially viable? Government take over?
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eastbay
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:17 am |
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Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 6454 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
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Interestingly, the stock valuations of the major airlines hasn't been adversely affected by by this recent run-up in aviation fuel. In fact, I've long expected an increse in passenger ticket prices but this hasn't happened, other than token and spot increases. Meanwhile, passenger loads are at 85+% for most.
At some point something has to give. I read here:
http://www.airlines.org/economics/energy/fuel+101.htm
.... that the military uses about 10% of the US aviation fuel. When a reduction in fuel availability occurs, the military's aviation fuel usage will not drop (in fact, will likel'y continue increasing) meaning, of course, that civil aviation will eat the entire reduction in the availability of aviation fuels. This will seriously affect the airlines financially causing passenger ticket prices to increase dramatically.
_________________ Got Dharma?
Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
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nth
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:03 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 1976
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As long as airplanes are full, they will be able to pay more for fuel without losing money operating their fleet of planes.
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DantesPeak
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:22 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6333 Location: New Jersey
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Can't say that I've been following jet fuel closely, but it seems that the government has been bidding more agressively for fuel.
There are also other reports that have the US armed forces are about to buy twice as much jet fuel from Persian Gulf suppliers in 2007 as compared to 2006 [I posted that before but can't find right now].
Quote: 3/26/07 Oil Daily Energy Intelligence Group March 26, 2007 Volume 57; Issue 58
Shell wins jet fuel contract.(Shell Oil Products gets contract from United States Defense Logistics Agency)(Brief article)
Shell Oil Products, a unit of Shell Oil Company, is being awarded two US Defense Logistics Agency contracts totaling up to $1.2 billion for aviation turbine fuel, the Pentagon said Thursday.
Work under the contracts is to wrap up on Apr. 30, 2008, the Defense Department said in its daily contract summary.
Separately, it said San Antonio-based Valero Marketing and Supply is being awarded a deal valued at up to $499.4 million for fuel, and Shell Chemical Yabucoa, based in Yabucoa, Puerto Rico, has won a contract valued at up to $143 million for naval distillate fuel.
[no link, subscription service]
_________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
Last edited by DantesPeak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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billp
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:23 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 429 Location: albuquerque
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Quote: I second your request to make this sticky.
And how is use of aviation fuel related to essential non-gas-wasting travel?
non-gas-wasting senior citizen
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Jack
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:46 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 5131
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AirlinePilot
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3333 Location: South of Atlanta
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billp wrote: Quote: I second your request to make this sticky. And how is use of aviation fuel related to essential non-gas-wasting travel? non-gas-wasting senior citizen
According to some things I have seen just commercial airline traffic by itself helps generate a significant portion of our economy in the US. Total civilian and commercial aviation makes up something in the neighborhood of 8-10% of the regular economy, not including the military.
Without it I would think we would have significant problems maintaining current economic activity.
Commercial aviation is going to be significantly impacted if it hasn't been already by high energy costs so I thought it would be interesting to watch these prices also.
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Eli
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:49 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 4005 Location: In a van down by the river
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Not to mention the fact that Airline fuel is more prone to supply disruptions. I remember last year when some Airports in Florida I think were running very low on fuel. We could very well see supply disruptions in airline fuel supply long before major gasoline shortages occur.
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billp
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Post subject: sticky stuff Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:55 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 429 Location: albuquerque
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Quote: I mean, made sticky Other sticky stuff Quote: In the end, neither Iran nor Iraq would win a clear victory, but the suffering was enormous on both sides. Conservative estimates place the death doll at 367,000-262,000 Iranians and 105,000 Iraqis. An estimated 700,000 were injured or wounded on both sides, bringing the total casualty figure to over one million. 43 In 1980, the US and Britain engineerd Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iran in an attempt to crush its new revolutionary Islamic government. That war inflicted nearly one million casualties on Iran. President Ahmadinejad led volunteers in the war. Recent publication reveals that Zibgniew Brzeninski, Jimmy Carter, and others incited Saddam Hussein to attack Iran through then Jordania King Hussein I bin Talal.
REAL STICKY stuff
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billp
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:14 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 429 Location: albuquerque
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Quote: According to some things I have seen just commercial airline traffic by itself helps generate a significant portion of our economy in the US. Total civilian and commercial aviation makes up something in the neighborhood of 8-10% of the regular economy, not including the military.
Without it I would think we would have significant problems maintaining current economic activity.
Agreed.
Economic depression you suggest?
regards from senior citizen
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jbeckton
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:28 am |
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:00 am Posts: 2098
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AirlinePilot wrote: I own a small aircraft and have a good website to track the local price of fuel.
Do you use your aircraft for business or pleasure?
Interesting hobby for someone concerned with PO no?
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AirlinePilot
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:05 am |
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3333 Location: South of Atlanta
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Its been a lifelong dream of mine to own my own aircraft. I have been renting and that is getting more expensive.
I took the plunge last fall and bought myself a Cessna 150. I own it outright and did it now because I fear in 5 years or so I might not get to enjoy it at all. So..living life now while I can.
It burns about 4.5 gallons per hour and I fly less than 10 hours a month. Purely joyrides and 100$ hamburgers. My kids enjoy going also so its great for that.
I am doing some things differently than I had planned like travel and things on my life "to do" list. Trying to get them all done in the next few years will be hard. This is one of those.
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sylviah
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Post subject: Re: Aviation Fuel price record Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:32 am |
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 56
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I love this quote: Quote: In the summer of 2005, Pulitzer Prize winner Daniel Yergin observed, "Every day, the airline industry propels the economic takeoff of our nation. It is the great enabler, knitting together all corners of the country, facilitating the movement of people and goods that is the backbone of economic growth. It also firmly embeds us in that awesome process of globalization that is defining the 21st century."
Globalization certainly is awesome, Mr. Yergin. Way cool. Totally rad.
So glad to hear that the aviation industry is taking its cues from CERA. Now we definitely don't have anything to worry about. Everything is just awesome.
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