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Page added on January 29, 2015
Have we reached ‘peak food’? Shortages loom as global production rates slow
New research finds that the supply of 21 staples, such as eggs, meat, vegetables and soybeans is already beginning to run out of momentum, while the global population continues to soar.
Peak chicken was in 2006, while milk and wheat both peaked in 2004 and rice peaked way back in 1988, according to new research from Yale University, Michigan State University and the Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research in Germany.
What makes the report particularly alarming is that so many crucial sources of food have peaked in a relatively short period of history, the researchers said.
“People often talk of substitution. If we run out of one substance we just substitute another. But if multiple resources are running out, we’ve got a problem. Mankind needs to accept that renewable raw materials are reaching their yield limits worldwide,” said Jianguo “Jack” Liu, of Michigan State University.
“This is a strong reason for integration … rather than searching for a one-for-one substitution to offset shortages,” he added.
Peak production refers to the point at which the growth in a crop, animal or other food source begins to slow down, rather than the point at which production actually declines. However, it is regarded as a key signal that the momentum is being lost and it is typically only a matter of time before production plateaus and, in some cases, begins to fall – although it is unclear how long the process could take.
“Just nine or 10 plants species feed the world. But we found there’s a peak for all these resources. Even renewable resources won’t last forever,” said Ralf Seppelt, of the Helmholtz Centre.
The research, published in the journal Ecology and Society, finds that 16 of the 21 foods examined reached peak production between 1988 and 2008.
This synchronisation of peak years is all the more worrying because it suggests the whole food system is becoming overwhelmed, making it extremely difficult to resurrect the fortunes of any one foodstuff, let alone all of them, the report suggested.
The simultaneous peaking of the world’s basic foodstuffs is largely down to the competing demands of a mushrooming population, which is putting ever-greater strain on the land for housing, agriculture, business and infrastructure. At the same time, producing more of any one staple requires the use of extra land and water, which increases their scarcity and makes it harder to increase food production in the future.
Finally, increases in production tend to push up pollution, which exacerbates shortages of resources and slows the growth in output.
The simultaneous peaking of crops and livestock comes against a backdrop of a growing population, which is expected to reach nine billion by 2050, requiring the world to produce twice as much food by then as it does now, according to a separate study by the California Academy of Sciences. The problems caused by the growing population have been compounded by the growth of wealthy middle-class populations in countries such as China and India which are demanding a meatier diet. This is problematic because meat and dairy use up a lot more resources than if a comparable level of nutrition were provided by crops, grown direct for human consumption.
“That trajectory [of needing to double food production] is not a given but more of a warning. It means we have to change how we eat and use food,” said Jonathan Foley, the director of the California Academy of Sciences.
While the peak production study suggests a doubling of food output could well be impossible, Dr Foley points out that, since 30 to 40 per cent of the food grown globally for human consumption never gets eaten, eliminating waste would go a long way to feeding the growing population.
Among the basic foodstuffs examined, only the relatively undeveloped farmed fish – or aquaculture – industry has yet to reach peak production.
46 Comments on "Have we reached ‘peak food’? Shortages loom as global production rates slow"
Enter on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 6:28 am
A peak means it’s not expensive enough.
forbin on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 7:47 am
um, if food can peak why is oil the exception ?
Forbin
Ps : peak beer? thats worrying …..
JN2 on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:03 am
“Peak chicken was in 2006”. So we’ve consumed less chicken since then? No. It should read “peak growth rate in chicken production was in 2006”. Production is still increasing but at a lower rate. A very confused article.
dave thompson on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:16 am
The exponential is a tough thing for most humans to grasp. Unless you are willing to open up to the interconnected web of life and undertake an awakening.http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/
bobinget on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:29 am
That peak corn stat is deceptive.
North America is the world’s top grains grower.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/96-325-x/2014001/article/11913-eng.htm
It’s true, most US corn goes to ethanol or cattle and chicken/piggy feed.
So, I questioned some of the other ‘peaks’ like ‘peak chicken’.
http://www.ansc.purdue.edu/faen/poultry%20facts.html
http://www.nass.usda.gov/Newsroom/2013/06_28_2013.asp
soybeans or as farmers call ‘money beans’
Davy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:31 am
I am curious if this is the case why then the projections of population increases on into 2030-2050 range by most MSM scientific papers. OH, I know substitution, new technologies, and huge new reservoirs of oil available from fracking. We have new substances in the planning phase from GMO to create meat. Will just grow the shit in the lavatory I mean laboratory.
Seriously folks, food, energy, and systematic structures are at limits and diminishing returns of productivity growth. That points to one thing and one thing only descent. Since the bumpy descent does not feel much different than the bumpy plateau we can’t get a feel for the macro situation. You know the story grocery store shelves are full, lights go on, and our favorite shows are still on. If I would just shut off the electronic devises I could get lost in a quiet rural life if I would send my woman into town to get supplies. My point is life still seems normal at lease in most of our locals in the developed world.
The reality of the situation is these limits will shortly lead to bifurcation to networks, production abandonment, and systemic dysfunctions for the global that all our delocalized locals depend on. This will be a vicious cycle down with the food and fuel situation only getting worse from the vicious cycle down of supply and demand destruction. Food supply will continue to fall driving demand down. Eventually demand destruction will be from famine at the scale man has never seen.
Once this process begins the momentum of descent will be as strong as gravity. There will be no escaping the forces in play. We will one day settle at a lower level of economic activity and population density. The transition will likely paly out over a generation. This will likely not be the end of it because in a generation the destabilized climate will further wreak havoc on food production further reducing population.
This is not a prediction because there is no way to predict descent. We can throw out likely general conditions based upon known conditions of ecosystems in collapse modelled around our human ecosystem. These facts are scientific. We have little history for this particular global collapse because we have never seen a global world in collapse. I see the time frame for food and energy limits effecting the systematic abstracts of civilization within 3-5 yr noticeably where the normal is no longer normal even for the sheeples. That is a personal view point based upon POD ETP realities, food productivity decreases, systematic rigidities, continued population growth, and continued overconsumption.
These forces are in a momentum that cannot be managed. There is no forces of the public will to change these bad attitudes and lifestyles. Nature is calling with the grim reaper. Ignore nature at your own risk or doom and prep as the only option. Dooming and prepping may not save you but it does buy you time to react. You may have dumb luck which you can gamble on and forget prepping. Preppers will be struck with bad luck. There is no way to avoid bad luck for some of us. I may be well prepared but all it takes in a bullet in the head to make all those preparations null and void. I am enjoying my prepping so no loss. I got to die sooner or later. I hope my prepping will take care of my kids if I am gone. Prepping is a natural response to leadership. Show some leadership and start prepping.
bobinget on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:40 am
The real social problems, potential food shortages
are… guess where?
Expanding Drought Stricken regions, central Africa,
prime example.
Now that it appears California has entered the forth
drought year, expect higher prices on most fruits, meats and veggies. Grains should remain stable.
One lady I met recently offered a tip on cooking brown rice. Try roasting the grains in the oven before cooking. Tried it and it speeds up cooking by at least a third. Pan frying also adds flavor.
Rodster on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:41 am
What should be a worrying sign for the US are all the weather related incidents keeping food production down especially in California. Another bad omen is the mismanagment of water. With the drought in California, you are seeing the potential for water scarcity in places like Nevada and Colorado where they depend on Lake Mead. Unfortunately building a major City in the middle of a desert i.e. Las Vegas doesn’t help.
Fracking uses enormous amounts of clean water as well. Gotta keep BAU running, I guess. 😛
Kenz300 on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 10:00 am
Maybe it is time to focus on PEAK POPULATION as an idea thats time has come……..
Too many people and too few resources……
Rodster on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 10:18 am
“Maybe it is time to focus on PEAK POPULATION as an idea thats time has come……..
Too many people and too few resources……”
That’s the way the BAU system was designed. You need exponential people growth to support the exponential infinite growth economic model created when (Ponzi Scheme) the Federal Reserve Act was enacted. Without population growth the ENTIRE system collapses.
GregT on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 10:22 am
As our economies continue to unwind, more and more people will be unable to afford food. When a large enough percentage of people are out of work, we will be in a food glut. Food prices could drop considerably putting many farmers out of work, but all of the food in the world will not matter at all, if people can’t afford to pay for it. They will go hungry, or they will starve.
BC on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 11:04 am
https://app.box.com/s/75sa0oswimkdphhdia5g
https://app.box.com/s/3rkaqcbnl33jq4e53b8a
http://www.skil.org/
The decelerating rate of the growth of population will reach a first order exponential decay by the early 2020s from the peak 50 years before, after which the second- and third-order decay regimes will occur in 5-6 and 2-3 years thereafter, implying that the 10-year rate of population growth will approach 0% by the late 2020s to early 2030s.
The additional inference is that population will not reach anywhere near 9 billion as the UN projects. Rather, population will peak as soon as the end of the decade to the early 2020s, plateau briefly, and begin declining no later than the 2030s.
Consider the conditions that will likely occur in the meantime to cause population growth to peak in the next 5-6 years and then begin declining a decade or so thereafter.
Peak Oil, overshoot, Limits to Growth, and Catton’s bottleneck are already having the predictable effects.
Also, because of the peak rate of change of population in the 1960s-70s, the world will face in the coming decades the largest number of deaths as a share of the population in human history simply from “natural causes” alone, not to mention premature deaths from infant mortality, drought and famine, disease, racial/ethnic/religious conflict, genocide, and war.
The scale of human death around the world in the next 20-30 years will uniquely condition and desensitize the next 1-2 generations to mass human death and likely dominate the mass-social zeitgeist accordingly, including gov’t policy, art, tribalism, security, etc.
We are well advised to begin to anticipate this once-in-history phenomenon and appeal to leaders and to our fellows for empathy and compassion, because, brother, we’re all going to need lots of same.
ghung on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 11:23 am
Thanks, BC. I have a rather odd nephew who wants to train as an undertaker. I think I’m the only family member who gave him any approval. Business should be great. I told him to look at alternative energy methods for cremation; solar ovens or somesuch. He could make a fortune 😉
GregT on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 11:53 am
“I told him to look at alternative energy methods for cremation; solar ovens or some such.”
Smart Ghung. Just yesterday on the radio they said that we can now have our loved ones composted, so we can shovel their remains back into our gardens. Seems like we are running out of land available for burial plots. Waste not, want not.
Davy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 11:56 am
Great comment BC. I will study the links because this issue is of profound importance.
G-man, Great grandpa was an undertaker in the teens of last century but it was only a part time job. He had a livery stables and equipment to water streets and do construction work back before autos. He had the couch for carrying the dead that allowed him some diversity of employment. He eventually got out of the undertaking business as the undertakers became professional. He became one of the earliest car dealers in St Louis then on into construction equipment. The sad part for my family is he got cancer and died in the 40’s likely from the poisons involved with his time as an undertaker.
One things is certain the traditional process of disposing of the dead is unsustainable in space and energy now so we know if there is the type of death rate BC mentioned it will be exponentially unsustainable. The shear amount of deaths ahead will have to be dealt with in a new and innovative way. If this sound morbid it is but like BC says this time of descent will require new thinking. This new age of death must be dealt with economically and humanly instead of just traditionally. We have to start acknowledging what is coming and start the process of adjustment to a new reality.
Keith_McClary on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 12:10 pm
GregT:
” … have our loved ones composted, so we can shovel their remains back into our gardens.”
Some people might have problems with that thought.
How about using the compost to fertilize biofuel crops?
BC on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 12:18 pm
From George Mobus, who describes our collective situation quite well:
http://questioneverything.typepad.com/question_everything/2015/01/how-to-save-the-human-genus.html
Plantagenet on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 12:23 pm
Forget the corpse-compost-biofuel idea—-new studies show that the whole biofuel idea is a waste time
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/29/science/new-report-urges-western-governments-to-reconsider-reliance-on-biofuels.html?_r=0
How about mummification? —Then you can use it for fuel? In Egypt they used to shovel mummies into steam engines to power the trains. But then they hit peak mummies.
GregT on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 12:31 pm
Soylent Green might not be such a bad idea after all………
Mutants 4Ever on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 12:57 pm
“That trajectory [of needing to double food production] is not a given but more of a warning. It means we have to change how we eat and use food,”
Uh.. bullshit. Why not just face the facts? We’ve reached peak population (a long time ago) and must massively reduce the mutant population as fast as possible.
Oh, wait… That would make far too much sense. Can’t do that…
ghung on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 1:00 pm
Bio-digesters, like in Water World?
Soylent Green seems risky considering the things modern humans put in their bodies. Burial at sea seems safer. Maybe the crabs can handle all the hormones and other stuff better. Those risks should diminish in time in areas not infused with nuclear and chemical wastes. Location is everything, eh?
At some point many will likely take the Martian approach (ala Stranger in a Strange Land); more efficient – surviving friends and family consume the remains in a ceremony. What better way to honour your loved ones? In my case they won’t even need extra garlic :-0
Davy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 1:20 pm
Well we could feed all those higher oder predators in some location. Pigs like human flesh. Bears, lions, tigers, Sharks, Eagles, crows, and wolves. We can give back to nature after centuries of taking.
BC on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 1:35 pm
LOL, ghung! Tastefully said. 😀
I suspect that we will have to develop a taste for insects, lab-created “meat”, and Soylent Green- and Major Tom-like powder, crackers, and pills to negotiate and perhaps hope to survive and adapt to the impending bottleneck.
The largest bubble in human history is the human ape population bubble. All bubbles burst and return to the point at which the super-exponential acceleration commenced, and occasionally overshoots below. The super-exponential growth regime for the human ape population began after the Industrial Revolution in the mid-18th century. Were the typical “anti-bubble” resolution to occur, population will eventually return to below 1 billion, or as much as a 90-95% decline.
Also, referring back to the 10-year average population trajectory in the chart from the earlier post, the trajectory fits virtually 1:1 with the decline in US crude oil production per capita since the 1970s (down 45% since the 1970 peak). IOW, growth of population and its replacement requires increasing primary energy per capita, which ceased growing in the US in 1970. And now the world is where the US was in the mid- to late 1970s WRT oil production per capita.
Therefore, the world population will soon have insufficient growth of supply of the world’s primary energy source per capita to sustain population growth and its replacement.
That average age of peak female fertility is age 28-29, one can extrapolate from the 1972 peak to 2010-11 as the second-order acceleration of the deceleration, and then some point between 2030 and 2040 for the rate of change of deceleration to reach zero and turn negative.
So, between 2010-11 and 2030 conditions will increasingly constrain resources per capita and births. Central banks printing bank reserves by the trillions and pumping financial bubbles one after the other won’t produce more liquid fuels, food, and goods and services per capita.
In fact, the larger the financial bubbles as a share of wages and GDP, the more inefficiently and misallocated are scarce resources, the larger the net rentier claims by the top 0.01-1% on the rest of us, the worse the wealth and income inequality, and the less per capita of everything but privation and misery for the rest of us.
Fun times ahead for all.
Plantagenet on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 1:37 pm
Polynesians call that “long pig”
BC on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 1:55 pm
Oops! My arithmetic was off by ten years. Shame on ol’ Doh! me. The peak fertility cycle implies 2000-01 as the onset of the second-order acceleration of the deceleration and 2020-30 the period during which the deceleration to zero and negative occurs.
So, just like the peak for aggregate US, Japan, and EZ real GDP per capita that occurred in 1998-2001, so, too, has the rate of change of population growth entered its effective decline and collapse regimes since the early to mid-2000s (coincident with Peak Oil).
Davy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 2:05 pm
We can offer the dead to the higher order predators as a gift for years of taking from them. We could also give the dead to large pig farms. Think of all those pork chops.
ghung on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 2:08 pm
Yeah, Plant, I’ve got some great recipes if anyone’s interested 😉
BC: I’ve found it almost impossible to get most of my contemporaries to grok the fundamental relationship between maintaining current population and per capita energy consumption, or the repercussions of declining energy. There seems to be a total disconnect as to how we got here, and where it will inevitably lead as resource availability declines. Non-linear processes affecting linear thinkers.
Greer’s current essay suggests that the next step down may be to a 1950s level of consumption along with a reversion to 1950s-style technology. I usually agree with Greer’s assessments, but feel this may be wishful thinking. We’ll see a triagesque scramble for resources to maintain current lifestyles which will be vastly more destructive than most expect. The population decline you expect will be at least as much a result of forcing as natural attrition. Populations have attempted to exterminate each other for less.
Then, again, Greer may be right. We’ll grow tired of fighting each other, and won’t have the energy do do so on any global scale,, at least temporarily. Depends on how many survive the first rounds I guess. I’d be damned surprised if there aren’t any mushroom clouds in my kids’ lifetimes. Helluva way to solve our problems, eh?
MSN Fanboy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 3:01 pm
GregT: “As our economies continue to unwind, more and more people will be unable to afford food. When a large enough percentage of people are out of work, we will be in a food glut. Food prices could drop considerably putting many farmers out of work, but all of the food in the world will not matter at all, if people can’t afford to pay for it. They will go hungry, or they will starve.”
So the poor will simply sit down and quite happily starve to death gregt?
You chaps keep forgetting the part where the poverty stricken masses bereft of food and fully taking of the rose tinted glasses of progress rise up and kill the rentier class.
Once the ‘many headed monster’ has devoured the rich they shall devour themselves, quite literally.
Sunrise, Sunset.
GregT on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 3:17 pm
MSN,
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again……
Move away from largely populated areas, learn how to grow your own food, and get involved in a small local community.
All three are concerned with the (nouveau) poor (us) not having enough to eat.
Rodster on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 3:17 pm
MSN Fanboy: “You chaps keep forgetting the part where the poverty stricken masses bereft of food and fully taking of the rose tinted glasses of progress rise up and kill the rentier class.”
A quote from Gerald Celente founder of the Trends Journal. He said: “When people lose everything and have nothing else to lose, they LOSE IT!”
Rodster on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 3:22 pm
“Greer’s current essay suggests that the next step down may be to a 1950s level of consumption along with a reversion to 1950s-style technology. I usually agree with Greer’s assessments, but feel this may be wishful thinking.”
I’ve read some of JMG’s posts and sometimes I agree and disagree with. The problem today is the interconnected and vastly complex globalized economic system that includes: finance, banking, food production, energy production, food and energy delivery etc.
The central planners made sure to lock everyone in as best as possible so as to rely on their J.I.T. system. The entire planet from East to West has gone all in on that system. It was all made possible by cheap oil.
I’m not as optimistic as JMG.
GregT on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 3:22 pm
“Non-linear processes affecting linear thinkers.”
Thanks for that Ghung. I just found my new e-mail signature.
Northwest Resident on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 3:33 pm
Rodster — I read the same Greer essay, and I didn’t get that Greer was suggesting that the next step down may be to a 1950’s level of consumption. Instead, I believe he offers the 1950’s level of consumption up as an example (for the sake of discussion) of how we might voluntarily step back into a more sustainable level of energy usage (as if that could ever happen in reality).
But maybe my reading was incorrect. Good chance of that since I’m jamming hard and fast at work today and barely have time to squeeze out a non-software related thought. Well, back to the grind…
Davy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 3:35 pm
I doubt a 50’s level globally too few resources for that and too many mouths to feed. The 50’s level in a hybrid arrangement with early 19th century arrangments depending on what class you end up in maybe. I imagine the Stone Age in many locations that completely disappear into the jungle of nature far from civilization support. I think many areas will progress swiftly to animal and human power as complexity triage occurs. What other choice is there with no liquid fuels or grid power. Other areas may coalesce into barios of complexity and organization at least for a time. I think anything modern has a entropic shelf life.
Rodster on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 4:33 pm
NW – “I read the same Greer essay, and I didn’t get that Greer was suggesting that the next step down may be to a 1950’s level of consumption.”
———————————–
My take is that the step down will be like becoming, Cuba. A step back from technology and having people do the work of robots and computers, like in the 50’s.
My problem with JMG and he’s a sharp thinker is that he gives the appearance that he’s got it all figured out i.e. ‘it should all go like this’. The unknown factor THIS time is that the world is way too interconnected. What happens in one part of the world, affects many other parts. Gail Tverberg from ourfiniteworld.com gives the best explanation that the global economy is a lot like Leonardo’s Stick Toy. Remove one or two pieces and it all comes crashing down. That’s how I see this all playing out. IT WILL BE A GLOBAL EVENT WHEN IT ALL STARTS. With all the nukes available and the elite trying to keep their ponzi scheme from imploding, we are at risk as humans where we could take ourselves off this planet. As George Carlin once put it, ‘a failed mutuation’.
These are quotes from JMG:
“Imagine, for a moment, that an industrial nation were to downshift its technological infrastructure to roughly what it was in 1950.”
“It would also involve a sharp increase in jobs for the working classes—a great many things currently done by robots were done by human beings in those days, and so there were a great many more paychecks going out of a Friday to pay for the goods and services that ordinary consumers buy. Since a steady flow of paychecks to the working classes is one of the major things that keep an economy stable and thriving, this has certain obvious advantages, but we can leave those alone for now.”
Rodster on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 4:36 pm
“My take is that the step down will be like becoming, Cuba. A step back from technology and having people do the work of robots and computers, like in the 50’s.”
I’m quoting myself because I left off a sentence. I meant to say is that how I read JMG’s explanation.
GregT on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 4:43 pm
The 50s was a period of rapid industrial expansion. Much of our infrastructure was built during the post war period as well. The population of the Earth grew from 2.5 billion to 3 billion people during that decade. We are now entering into a period of decline with almost 3 times the population, dwindling food and water resources, and a planet with every single ecosystem in a steady state of decline.
The next step down might very well be a 50s level of consumption, but there will be many steps down following that step, and those steps will become steeper and faster in between, on the way down to the landing at the bottom of the staircase.
Rodster on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 4:52 pm
“The next step down might very well be a 50s level of consumption, but there will be many steps down following that step, and those steps will become steeper and faster in between, ON THE WAY DOWN TO THE LANDING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRCASE.”
Well said !
dave thompson on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 5:59 pm
I just read a story about the decommissioning of the Illinois, Zion nuke. The fuel rods are remaining onsite indefinitely in concrete casks, within spiting distance of lake Michigan. With 400 some odd nukes remaining around the world, I conclude humanity in the near term, SOOL.
Davy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 7:24 pm
Maybe JMG has been watching too much “Leave it to Beaver”. Who doesn’t have fond thoughts of the 50’s. What a great decade with simplicity and wholesome values. I know romanticism for a time that was not always nice nor full of simple values.
Reality says it will be a hybrid of today and the Amish. There is so much salvage potential with huge built out infrastructure and 21st century knowledge. What we got now is likely what we will draw on in tandem with a rediscovery of the old.
I think the time frame is impossible to predict except for the brick walls ahead most notably POD ETP of oil, food production decline, and global financial decay to name a few.
In the meantime get used to the surreal, dysfunctional, and irrational all wrapped up in normal. IOW a regular “Alice in Wonderland” dream with the occasional getting up to piss thinking what a friggen dream. The problem is it won’t be a dream.
Makati1 on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:04 pm
I think there are only two options when the SHTF. It will be a quick crash and burn caused by a nuclear exchange that basically guaranties human extinction in a few years, or, the bumpy and fast stair-step DOWN the ladder of progress until we find a level where humans can survive and prosper, maybe an 1800s or even 1700s economy and ~1,500,000,000 total world population?
I hope to be around to see the answer to that question.
Makati1 on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:14 pm
Dave Thompson, We have over 400 of those death traps scattered around the world and are building more. We have over 250,TONS tons of spent “fuel” laying in glorified swimming pools near them. ALL of them will requiring huge amounts of energy/money to secure them for decades, if not hundreds of years after they are shut down. NOT going to happen when the SHTF and chaos is the word that best describes events.
Davy likes to put down the Ps, but here are no nukes here to worry about. The US has over 100. Many are older than he is. If Japan cannot afford to secure the three that melted down at Fukushima, how can the US afford 100+? Just a thought.
Davy on Thu, 29th Jan 2015 8:21 pm
Mak, I put down your travel agent advert for the P’s. The place is not a refuge for collapse. 100MIL in the space Az is crazy. Mak, nowhere will be without problems that is my message. The P’s is an insignificant country you insist on making into an important country which demonstrates your grandiose mentality.
Makati1 on Fri, 30th Jan 2015 5:05 am
Keep spouting the same drivel, Davy. I don’t see your location as being any better when the American zombies start to pillage the countryside. You have to sleep sometime.
The Ps are not important. That is a very big plus in today’s world. We don’t have a million illegal immigrants coming into the Ps every year. The Ps doesn’t have the huge debts of the West. Most would not miss the banking system as they don’t use banks. Most would not miss supermarkets for the same reason. Cars and air travel are still luxury items here. People know how to live without. Recycle is not just a word here. When something makes it to the dump, it is totally useless and not recyclable for any other use.
So, yes, I will keep pointing out the pluses of my chosen home and you can keep putting it down. You are not important to my future. They are.
MSN Fanboy on Fri, 30th Jan 2015 5:46 am
Makati1, THE DIFFERENCE IS SPACE. LOL
Death by a Philippine or Death by Radiation… GOODY 🙂
America has actually produced predictive maps of the fallout patterns of a nuclear exchange. If you really are scared of radiation killing you let me give you a tip. MOVE.
As for the America has 100 nukes thus all Americans are dead argument is quite false. They will not just blow up, it will be a long process of shutdown leading to radiation leakage over time. Most likely something OUTSIDE our life times as entropic decay takes time. (Some may blow btw, I don’t deal in certainties just chance)
The Chance of Makati1 being killed by Philippine due to high population density is much greater.
I’m not saying which is better, Makati1 may turn out to be right and the Philippine will choose to spare and carry him as a free rider, putting themselves to death and their children to death over the white man lol
But again, I think the chance of this being true is…. slim.
Davy on Fri, 30th Jan 2015 6:02 am
Obviously Mak you are worried about your chosen refuge or you would not be so obsessive about talking it up. I have never said my doomstead is any better than yours. It has comparative advantages and disadvantages. Either one of us could have bad luck or good luck. It is you that insist on an anti-western agenda so consequently I am in a bad place and you are in a good place per your drivel. That is a message with a personal agenda. That disqualifies you as a fair, objective, and balanced commentator. It is your type that are uptight assholes and put down other for your own failures.
The P’s is a beautiful country that has been destroyed by overpopulation (100MIL in space of AZ) and ecological degradation. The P’s rank 170 on a list of 172 on the global environmental list. Even if that is exaggerated it points to big issues. I get so tired of your constant harping on how bad my country is and how great your region and country are. It gets old so that is why when you are spouting puke on how great Asia and the P’s are I throw shit balls. I do this to remind you that your shit stinks too and your ADOPTED home has trash that needs to be taken out just like mine. Mak you are an example of a DICK in the pure MEANING of the term.