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Page added on September 27, 2014

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Family spending on gasoline hits all-time high

Family spending on gasoline hits all-time high thumbnail

The average U.S. household spent more than $2,600 on gas last year for a third consecutive year — an all-time high and a 111% increase compared with the amount spend a decade earlier, an advocacy group says.

The increase was due to the high price of oil, says the group, Securing America’s Future Energy, which aims to reduce America’s oil dependency, based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Consumer Expenditure Survey.

“Closely correlating with global crude oil prices, not domestic crude streams, increased U.S. gasoline spending proves a result of stubbornly high global oil prices and American consumers’ near-complete reliance on oil as a transportation fuel,” SAFE said in a statement.

The cost spike has occurred despite those households’ non-gas discretionary spending increasing by only 1% each year. According to SAFE, a major contributor to that disparity is the continued high price of oil on the worldwide market.

And, of course, for the moment, things have changed. A sustained decline in U.S. gas prices of late has led to this week’s seven-month low, 11 cents less than motorists were paying the same day a year.

High fuel prices hit poor families harder, with the lowest spending nearly 13% of their income on gas compared with 2.5% for the highest, the report states.

The ratio of gas spending to income was greatest in rural Midwestern states and lowest in densely populated coastal states.

While increased U.S. oil production has had broad economic benefits for the nation, advantages have not trickled down to the consumer in the form of lower gas prices in the years covered by the study.

USA TODAY



37 Comments on "Family spending on gasoline hits all-time high"

  1. Norm on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 6:55 am 

    Change the law, so they can spend food stamps on gasoline.

  2. Davy on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 7:01 am 

    Norm, in this book is a chapter on rationing options. I think it is chapter 7. It discusses vouchers for the poor and many other options. All options are difficult to implement and economically distorting. There are really no good options to dealing with liquid fuel shortages.

    http://petrole.blog.lemonde.fr/files/2010/09/hirsch-the-impending-world-energy-mess-presentation.1284592969.pdf

  3. rockman on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 8:12 am 

    “While increased U.S. oil production has had broad economic benefits for the nation, advantages have not trickled down to the consumer in the form of lower gas prices in the years covered by the study.”

    “Advantages”…LOL. Again a writer with his head so far up the ass he can’t tell if it’s day or night. The high gasoline prices exist for the same reason we’ve had increased oil production: higher oil prices. Very simple dynamics the cornies refuse to acknowledge: the US consumers were spending less (even adjusted for inflation) for their motor fuel when the country was producing less oil 10 years ago. Likewise we were sending fewer $’s overseas when we were importing more oil at that time.

    Or maybe the disconnect is due to all those damn speculators. Yeah, that’s the ticket. LOL. Of course there have been some advantages created. And for that the Rockman et al thank y’all.

  4. Nony on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 8:22 am 

    This cornie has always acknowledged it. You just like to repeat yourself. BTW, you have failed to acknowledge how U.S. shale has kept the line at 100 and stopped us from going to 150.

    Later, rinse, repeat.

  5. Makati1 on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 9:02 am 

    I suspect that most less wealthy folks drive older cars that are gas hogs. They cannot afford to ‘move up’ to a new fuel efficient vehicle and yet, they still have to get to work and the grocery store.

    The place I lived with my family was two miles from the grocery store, but 18 miles from my job. My sister is 10 miles from a grocery store and 25 miles from her job. (She finally retired last year) Thinking about my family and friends, They were/are all in the same ‘suburb trap’.

    The downfall of the US will be mostly because of their oil intensive living arrangements. They are locked into them by mortgages and their inability to move closer to their jobs and stores. I still have friends that drive 50+ miles, each way, to work, but cannot move because the other breadwinner would have to give up their job or drive the 50 miles back. Catch 22.

  6. frankthetank on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 9:10 am 

    We have a van and a car. The van gets roughly 21mpg/car is 28 to 30mpg… I figure we are burning on avg about $150/month (less in winter/less driving). so that is $1800/yr. But gas is only part of it. Tires aren’t cheap and up here (WI) in winter you need good treat or you die (ice/snow). Oil changes, wear and tear (belts/alternators). Insurance. I’d love to cut down to 1 vehicle, but its tough with young kids (not having the van). Luckily no car payments (both clunkers).

  7. JuanP on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 9:24 am 

    My family’s spending on gasoline is at an all time low thanks to the fact that we walk to work.

  8. Plantagenet on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 9:39 am 

    Poor people shouldn’t be wasting their money on cars. They should walk, bike, and use mass transit.

  9. ghung on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 10:08 am 

    Plant: “Poor people shouldn’t be wasting their money on cars. They should walk, bike, and use mass transit.”

    Sounds simple, doesn’t it Plant. As Kunstler has been pointing out for years, it generally doesn’t work that way in our suburb-heavy society. His poster child for this situation is often Atlanta where lower wage folks can only afford to live in the outer suburbs where most things are beyond walking distance, biking is lethal, and mass transit has been grossly underfunded. Meanwhile, the region is in the process of spending more $billions to try to squeeze a few more cars on their already over-saturated roads. Atlanta regional voters soundly defeated “T-SPLOST” last year; a 1% sales tax to improve the area’s overall transportation situation (heavy on mass transit, bike lanes/trails, etc.).

    Most of America is thoroughly invested in the car culture, and most Americans like it that way; won’t vote for alternatives. Why should some upper middle-class office drone, smug in his shiny SUV, pay more taxes so some poor schmuck can get by without a car? Schmuck needs to work two part-time jobs anyway, so we don’t have to pay for his foodstamps and kids healthcare. How’s he going to do that without a car?

  10. Northwest Resident on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 10:17 am 

    Take away the ability of poor people to drive sounds like a great idea. Then they won’t be able to get to their part time minimum wage jobs and they’ll qualify for even more food stamps and government aide. That way, some folks can demonize the poor even more for being the lazy shiftless takers that they “choose” to be. Works great, for people who like to blame others for the problems we are faced with without having to recognize the real underlying issues.

  11. Kenz300 on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 10:59 am 

    Walk, buy a bicycle or take mass transit. It is time that cities became more people centered and less auto centered.

    Electric, flex-fuel, biofuel, hybrid, CNG, LNG and hydrogen fueled vehicles are an option for longer distances .

    It is time to end the oil monopoly on transportation fuels. Diversify…diversify…..diversify…… it is always good to have options.

    E-Bike Sales Are Surging in Europe – NYTimes.com

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/business/e-bike-sales-are-surging-in-europe.html?emc=edit_th_20140819&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=21372621

    —————–

    Some cities encourage bikes………. they provide safe walking and biking lanes and trails. Cities also need to encourage businesses and apartments to provide safe places to lock or store a bicycle. More people should encourage their elected officials to do more.They need to speak up and become an advocate for bicycle use in their city.

    ——————–

    Top 10 Cycling-Friendly Cities – YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycKXeKfu4lo
    ———————
    Bike Friendly Cities, The Journey to School – YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-XenU6UEp8

  12. DMyers on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 11:07 am 

    Rockman says:
    Higher oil prices = more oil production
    Not higher oil prices = not more oil production

    Here, price determines level of production (supply) rather than supply determining price. This is an unconventional formulation, but it reflects the particular dynamics of the particular commodity involved, especially as it pertains to a new source of supply with a higher cost of extraction.

    Nony claims to be a cornucopian himself, who acknowledges the relationship between price and supply that Rockman posits [see Nony comment above]. He accuses Rockman of failing to acknowledge that shale production has kept the barrel price of oil “… at 100 and stopped us from going to 150.”

    Nony acknowledges that price determines supply (Rockman’s supply/demand exception principle RSDEP) but then argues that supply determines price, in the classical fashion. He is saying additional supply from shale has dampened price.

    Nony can make this argument only by begging the question (assuming the desired conclusion and making it an argument for the same conclusion). That conclusion is refuted by RSDEP. I conclude that Nony has incorrectly attributed price suppression to shale oil suppy.

    If there has been price suppression, as Nony suggests, then that would require the presence of upward price pressure, as from increasing demand. If price does not increase, then supply does not increase, per RSDEP, so supply cannot be the suppressing factor.

    Certainly, diminishing demand could lead to a price ceiling, as it would lessen upward price pressure. That may be one factor, but it appears that oil supply and price will be ensconced in a complicated nexus of multiple, changing factors, defying precise explanations or solutions, for a long time to come.

    Frankly, all this circularity is making me dizzy. For that, if nothing else, I’m an easy target for anyone who wants to take a punch.

  13. Plantagenet on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 11:11 am 

    Peak Oil means less oil and more expensive gasoline which is going to do bad things to the economy. As we go forward, not only will poor people not have cars—middle class people won’t be able to have cars. Cars are a luxury—not a necessity and not the birthright of all Americans.

    This American delusion that everyone should have a car is ridiculous. Try getting your lard butts out of the cars and onto a bicycle. Or maybe even try walking—thats what those two long spindly things hanging down out of your butt and attached to your shoes are are for. If you have to commute then get a motorcycle or a scooter that gets 100 mpg. EVERYBODY DOESN”T HAVE TO HAVE A CAR!

  14. Kenz300 on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 11:27 am 

    It is time to end the oil monopoly on transportation fuels.

    Prius Competitors, Lutz On Tesla, Toyota Fuel-Cell Ad: The Week In Reverse – YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxpDqgifyjw

  15. Perk Earl on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 11:53 am 

    “His poster child for this situation is often Atlanta where lower wage folks can only afford to live in the outer suburbs”

    Same situation here in the SF bay area, Ghung, in which the closer you get to the center of the concentric value circles/SF, the higher the prices for housing, parking, etc. The distances to get from an affordable area to rent to work for lower income people is so far that making arrangements to get to and use mass transit would make them late for work among other inefficiencies of time management. Additionally many of them hold numerous part time minimum wage jobs in different locations. It’s not just a matter of going down the corner and hailing the #35 that will take someone straight to work, it requires finding a way to go 3 miles to get a connecting bus to a locale where a #17 can be taken to a different location to take the A65, but even then the closest drop off location is 2 miles from their place of employment.

    From an article I read recently many minimum wage workers save money on fuel by sleeping in their vehicles in between shifts. So there is no easy answer for lower income people regarding transportation.

  16. ghung on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 12:41 pm 

    Plant: “This American delusion that everyone should have a car is ridiculous.”

    You keep using “should”, a word (concept) that some languages don’t have. The nature of American infrastructure requires that many (most?) working class folks have a car to keep working; just another trap we’ve set for our society. Until we, collectively, pay the enormous costs of making other arrangements, many people are stuck with their cars, which is why most folks find the concept of shortages and unaffordable fuel so disconcerting. They have no Plan B. It makes the drill, baby, drill meme an easy one to promote. Societies tend to defend the things they’ve invested the most in until those things become inviable.

    “This American delusion that everyone should have a car is ridiculous” “should” be obvious, like a lot of things. What will folks do when we can’t continue to support all of these empowering technological entitlements? :-0

  17. Norm on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 1:09 pm 

    One of the amazing things in America, is no car gets more than about 35 mpg. There’s a glass ceiling at that value. Change to motorcycle? Same ceiling about 35 mpg. In reality, there could be some small zippy cars that get 50, 60 mpg. Could be motorcycles that get 80 mpg. Why don’t we have them? Apparently our government doesn’t want such vehicles within our borders. Guess its the United government of Halliburton.

    We really should make food stamps pay for gasoline. So many fat hippopotamus walking around, it would be glorious to knock that bottle of corn syrup out of their hands and make them spend it on gasoline instead. Or make them push the car down the road, lose 60 pounds and get them back into shape.

    Electric bicycle is a remarkable new sort of a toy, economical even for any class of person. The presumption that all people must drive out of the suburbs in a 21 mpg Chevrolet Tahoe is totally false. People continue in prior habits however, as though its mandatory. Perhaps they would rather die than change, that could happen. Funny how all the people in China commute to work on a bicycle, but in USA they’d rather skip paying their water bill than save money riding a 10 speed to work.

  18. HIruit Nguyse on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 1:53 pm 

    OK I am going to try to keep this concise, as I could write a full essay on this subject. I currently live in that squalor that JHK pejoratively (and accurately) refers to as Dixie.
    I have sat in the mayors office of my little local shittown and seen the former Mayor pat the bible on his desk, stroking it like a little lap dog and uttering these words: “That’s the only book that any person will ever need.”
    I have seen the glorious results of this mindset…a county with 95 fukin Baptist churches and One (1) high school with a 30% dropout rate, and not a bookstore in the county.

    The Local Life Cycle: Droupout in 9th or 10th grade…Pregnant by 15, 3 kids by 21, pot, crack, meth, jail, jeebus, tattooed from head to toe, in short: Life over before 25.

    What I want to speak about is the endless cycle of Drivers License Slavery that I see. According to my lawyer, about 20% of our drivers are unlicensed. With no money to buy insurance, fines are quickly accrued to the point of unpayability via this cycle: No License, No Insurance…. No Insurance, No Tag……No Tag, Pulled Over.
    My lawyer recently told me that there are more people sitting in the Tuscaloosa Jail (in AL) for Traffic violations than any single other crime. I have no reason to doubt him.
    I know people that have had more than 10 cars and trucks since Jan 1st this year due to impoundments. You can always get a junker for about 300 – 400 $, but it can cost thousands to get a drivers licence back, and the interest slavery that is compounded on top of the fines is impossible to pay. So not only do I see people spending their money on gas, but I see them spending it on $350.00 Chevy trucks, Monza’s, Vega’s, and Galaxie 500’s as well, with the occasional 8 mpg ’75 Fleetwood with a 500CID thrown in for good measure.
    A Ford F150 is the usual suspect, as they are available in abundance, with no shortage of 250’s 350 Diesels, and Chevy’s as well.

    Once a person enters the Zone of Drivers License Slavery, they often never leave it. I know of people that drive more than 100 miles (one way!) to work (thousand miles a week) to get to a $12.00 / Hr. job. That is the only type of job that is going to exist down here.

    For a long time I have thought that minimum liability insurance should be added on to the price of gas (say a $2.00 a gallon gas tax), and your drivers license should double up as a gas stamp card (like snap cards). Call it a SGAP card. This way, you had insurance if you had gas. You could set the rate of careless drivers each year by encoding different price variables in the magnetic strip of the Licence (which doubles up as your gas card). No licence, no gas, so license theft would be a big issue. This would help solve the drunk driving problem as well, as a revoked licence would mean surreptitious gas purchases would be required.

    To give you an idea of how our local economy works, one of the kids up at the local tattoo parlor told me that he did a $35.00 tattoo last week for $100.00 in food stamps. Your tax paying dollars at work.

  19. ghung on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 2:00 pm 

    Norm “Or make them push the car down the road, lose 60 pounds and get them back into shape.”

    Unfortunately, many never were in shape. I stood behind a family the other day waiting to get a wrap at the local grocery store deli. The entire family was grossly obese, even the toddler wailing from his seat in the cart full of junk food and sugar water. Each of the seven family members had to have the giant footlong sub customized to his/her specs.

    I waited patiently as they debated weather to get extra bacon on their sandwiches, unaware, or unconcerned, that the line behind them was growing long. Quite the family outing, and, yes, the huge woman paid with her EBT/SNAP card (easy to spot in our state since it looks like an American flag; how appropriate). I watched as the little collective waddled off behind their mother and younger brother in their electrified shopping cart with smug looks of satisfaction (entitlement?). It was a bit surreal when the woman behind me muttered “we’re in deep trouble in this country”, seemingly reading my mind.

    I hold no ill will towards these people; it is what it is, but it’s a good bet that these behaviors are being passed down, generation to generation. I can only assume that, at some point, humans will be subject to evolution and natural selection again. Like over-population, these things will be self-correcting, given time. Hard to know whether to laugh or cry.

  20. Perk Earl on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 2:01 pm 

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-27/russia-discovers-massive-arctic-oil-field-which-may-be-larger-gulf-mexico

    Hey guys, over at zero hedge at the link above there is an article about a major Russian oil find in the Kara Sea, Arctic. Sounds like it may be on the back-burner due to sanctions though.

    I’m curious for someone in the know; if they can only drill 4 months of the year and have to pull the rig out, even if they are successful in finding oil, what do they leave behind to get oil out later? Maybe they leave something below the water/ice level to connect to the following melt season?

  21. rockman on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 2:13 pm 

    “BTW, you have failed to acknowledge how U.S. shale has kept the line at 100 and stopped us from going to 150.”

    Sorry…I thought it was a rhetorical question since every one here already understands why $150/bbl oil wasn’t sustainable. I incorrectly assumed you were up to speed of the Peak Oil Dynamics. But we’re a patient lot and will wait for you smarten up.

  22. ghung on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 2:31 pm 

    HIruit – I was in Alabama a few weeks ago picking up our new solar water heaters. Drove down through Chattanooga, through Huntsville to Decatur. Much of N. Alabama is as you say (though truly lovely country), but many of the people I met there are basic hard working folks; salt-of-the-earth types. Then you get to the outskirts of Huntsville; the other side of your tax dollars at work. Better roads, and the economic and demographic change is quite remarkable. Pickup trucks become high-end Lexus, Porches and Escalades. The sight of the massive Saturn V rocket next to the Interstate is like a giant phallus declaring Huntsville’s economic might and virility. Of course, most of the folks who live in Huntsville ain’t from ’round there.

    It’ll be interesting to see how places like this evolve when huge injections of tax dollars become impossible. Something like this perhaps:

    h ttp://weburbanist.com/2008/01/27/7-abandoned-wonders-of-the-former-soviet-union-from-submarine-stations-to-unfinished-structures/

  23. Nony on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 2:41 pm 

    Take 4 million off line and you all will see how sustainable 150/bbl is. It’s just supply and demand people. You all amaze me with how you don’t get things. There’s no “dynamic”, Rock. It’s just basic supply and demand. I’m going to stop ripping into people here since I’m just wasting my time.

  24. Poordogabone on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 3:39 pm 

    “Electric, flex-fuel, biofuel, hybrid, CNG, LNG and hydrogen fueled vehicles are an option for longer distances .”

    kenz, none of these suggestions will make your car run a longer distance, some will make your wallet go a longer distance depending on prices of NG but then again, if people massively switched to CNG or LNG, don’t expect prices to remain low. Bio fuel uses as much oil to produce than it delivers, no good.
    Electric cars or Fuel cell technology is a huge waste of energy. you have several steps of conversions from one energy form to another starting with NG or coal. It is only viable if the original source of energy is cheap and more than plentiful.
    Nuclear batteries would work great except for the fact that primates are behind the wheel.

  25. Poordogabone on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 3:47 pm 

    OH and Hybrids is a complex, high maintenance, has 2 motors, expensive piece of technology where you could save as much fuel by driving a classic car applying “hypermilling”

  26. Hiruit Nguyse on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 4:00 pm 

    Ghung, see if you can make it to Dallas, Bibb, Wilcox, and Perry counties. These counties have a few of the people that can survive the LE because there are still people living with no electricity or running water.

    If you can ever make it to Bessmer, Ensley, Midfield, or Powderly (without being shot and killed during transit), you can witness Little Detroit….the model for a post hydrocarbon future for all of the Southeast.

    Only a trip through the Mississippi Delta can truly convey the third world nation potential of this area. One of my friends (she is nearly 70 now) teaches in a MD school. All of the teachers carry guns….it doesn’t matter whether or not that is legal, the principal advises all teachers to carry a weapon with them at all times. I wouldn’t dare jeopardise her career by giving away too much, but the activities that go on in that school are amazing.

    Recently a student was tossed out onto the concrete from a third story window. This woman and her comrades can describe MS in a way that I couldn’t imagine.

    One of my old customers described the South as one Giant Trailerpark dotted with occasional Pockets of Success. Huntsville was one of those pockets. Between Huntsville, and Birmingham, you could take a wrong turn and disappear.

    HN

  27. MSN Fanboy on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 4:16 pm 

    “Sorry…I thought it was a rhetorical question since every one here already understands why $150/bbl oil wasn’t sustainable. I incorrectly assumed you were up to speed of the Peak Oil Dynamics. But we’re a patient lot and will wait for you smarten up.”

    LOL Rockman, Nony just got destroyed LOL

    Nony, your partly right, but you need to add two and two togeather, specifically, peak oil AND economics, you grasp both, but fail to see how they are inter-related.

    How should i put this, you can see the colour red, and see the colour yellow. Now mix these togeather and you get Orange.

    You will then understand Rockman’s arguement.

  28. Davy on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 6:16 pm 

    Hiruit, I have been going to Eufaula Alabama since I was a kid. My parents have good friends down there. The Alabama people are great people. I find them hard working and successful. The south gets a bad rap. Yes, there are some bad places and very poor people. Yet, they have their culture and many of them are poor but proud. Some of our toughest soldiers are from these poor southern areas. Tell me why people have to be sophisticated? I know so many unhappy uptight rich people. There is something to be said about poor, proud, and content. In fact I would postulate that when the descent comes it is these lower class white and black in the south that will do better than most. Sure it will be ugly and painful but what is new for these folks. I can tell you these folks in the rural south are happy for the most part. If you find their culture rough and ugly so be it. These folks could care less about what people like us think of them.

  29. Davy on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 6:19 pm 

    @NOO – You all amaze me with how you don’t get things. There’s no “dynamic”, Rock. It’s just basic supply and demand

    Noo, you can be so smart then just puk stupidity.

  30. HIruit Nguyse on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 7:29 pm 

    Davy, you missed the point….those resilient type of people populate the counties that I mentioned…Perry, Dallas, etc. Those are the people that will be able to get it together.

    It’s the middle class surburban sprawl hellholes (like Hoover) that depend on the 3 day just in time supply chain, and gas at the pumps who will cannibalize each other.

    Eufala is as different from Ensley as Paris is from Pakistan.

    Remember that AL receives $1.95 in Federal funds for every $1.00 paid in taxes. So you can afford to be Rough and Ugly as long as the snap cards keep-a-comin’ and the DG shelves stay stacked.

    The Old country people of my youth who were self sufficient are nearly extinct now….their topsoil raked off to make room for crumbleboard housing projects, strip malls, and trailer parks.

    In 3 months truck and chainsaw season begins….this is the season that middle aged white men are driving up in my yard trying to sell me their tools, trucks, RV’s, DeWalts, and Husqvarnas to pay one more months power bill, or buy one more hit of crack. This season runs till about March.

    Sophisticated indeed!

  31. Davy on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 7:46 pm 

    OK, HI, maybe I painted a happier picture then AL deserves. Yet, I still don’t see things as bad there as the northeastern corridor when millions will struggle to eat and stay warm in a severe correction. There are plenty of boil peanuts to eat in AL and winters are less harsh. So maybe a compromise considering our points of reference with me being a doomer and you being a normal person.

  32. HIruit Nguyse on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 7:55 pm 

    Davy, people consider me a doomer also. Anyone who studies Climate, or Depletion is considered a nutcase down here. I tend to take life with the viewpoint that each day of my future will be slightly worse than each day of my youth, and will also constitute one step closer to death.

    I do a lot of things for free today because I hope the favour will be returned to me one day. One day I will run out of Fiat Money. One day I will not be able to earn enough to sustain my existence in a post cheap-carbon world. One day I won’t be able to get Acetylene for the torches. One day I will enter the zone of medical bankruptcy, or put a period to my own existence to prevent that from happening.

    I feel especially sorry for kids (kids are anyone under 30) who do not have the skills and opportunities of my elders.

    Today I put a Clutch Slave Cylinder on a Chevy s-10, made a contactor, and tube lock for a tattoo gun, and bought a birthday cake for a 19 year old that has 2 kids already and a $10.00 / Hr job.

    Maybe them boys will help me when I am hungry one day.

    “Issuing in Blood and Sorrow from the Woumbe,
    Crauling in Tears and Mourning to the Tombe,
    How Slippery thy Path, How Sure thy Fall,
    How art Thou Nothing when Thou art Most of All”

  33. Davy on Sat, 27th Sep 2014 8:00 pm 

    Damn, sounds like we could be good neighbors. Sorry for not knowing you better on this board. I will know next time.

  34. Desertrat on Mon, 29th Sep 2014 3:35 pm 

    As we discussed many times on TOD, the only sustainable forms of transportation in light of serious oil depletion are shoes, trains, and bikes. And yes, it sucks to ride in the snow. How did our neandertal ancestors ever survive?! Cold & hungry is our inheritance…

    My ebike runs 5Ah@36V for my 15mi commute, but I pedal a lot, so call it 400Wh/15mi = 25Wh/m. Call it 30Wh/m for charging losses. @30kWh/gal of gasoline I’m getting 1000mpg. Motor & batt cost $500 and have lasted over 5 years, zero maintanence (wish I could say the same for the bike itself).

    By that general argument though, you can already lease a Volt or Leaf for the cost of gas, and no one is going there either, at least not enough to make the slightest difference.

    Too bad the parts of the economy that manufacture such are going to be early casualties before they are needed in quantity. I’m sure the local chieftain will be riding mine one day in return for leaving my descendants alone, if they are lucky. I guess that’s why you can’t own one in the south either…

    Desert

  35. Davy on Mon, 29th Sep 2014 4:55 pm 

    Yea, desert, use the train until they quickly breakdown and can’t be repaired, bikes a little longer until even they wear out en mass, and walking. With walking you are on to something. I might also recommend horses. My region everyone in the country has and rides horses.

  36. Adamra on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 5:39 pm 

    🙁 RIP HIruit Nguyse

  37. Cloggie on Sun, 2nd Apr 2017 6:18 pm 

    weburbanist.com/2008/01/27/7-abandoned-wonders-of-the-former-soviet-union-from-submarine-stations-to-unfinished-structures/

    Fascinating. In 2010 I visited these ancient Soviet structures in Balaklava in the Crimea, to the East of the city I liked most in the entire Ukraine: Sevastopol. Really “James Bond” feeling, these miles long underground nuclear submarine basis hidden in the mountains:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmpfgEjObLQ

    Drove in one day from Holland to the Polish-Ukrainian border over very smooth German and Polish highways. Wanted to achieve Odessa in the next day, but only made it to Khmelnitsky, due to truly **horrible** roads in the West Ukraine, where you could drive only 40 kmh during the first hours. Passed Lvov roads got gradually better, but driving in the dark was absolutely impossible. The further East I got the better the roads became. Crimea is fantastic. Poltava was as far East as I got. Stayed 3 weeks in Kiev, lodging in an apartment overlooking Maidan Square with a pile of history books.

    Six weeks and an Autumn well spend.

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