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Page added on September 11, 2017

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China to Phase Out Internal Combustion Engine Cars

 

In the first day of trading after China said it’s working on a deadline to end sales of fossil-fuel-powered vehicles, shares are holding ground in the oil companies that stand to lose out.

The listed units of China’s big three oil companies — PetroChina Co., Cnooc Ltd and China Petroleum & Chemical Corp. — all posted gains in early trading on Monday in Hong Kong, most likely buoyed by a tick up in crude prices. China Petroleum, better known as Sinopec, which is also trading Monday without the right to receive its next dividend, rose 1.7 percent after stripping out the impact of the payout.

Plug-in cars are forecast to account for a third of the global auto fleet by 2040 and displace about 8 million barrels a day of oil production, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance estimates before China’s announcement. The boss of Royal Dutch Shell Plc has warned liquids demand could peak in the early 2030s as electrification accelerates.

Whether China’s announcement changes the outlook for oil demand remains to be seen, but for the time being, investors in the nation’s producers are holding firm. Not so, however, the companies that mine the lithium used in electric vehicle batteries.

Perth-based Galaxy Resources Ltd., which began exports to China this year, advanced as much as 6.8 percent in Sydney, while Brisbane-based Orocobre Ltd., with an operation in Argentina, climbed as much as 3.4 percent. China’s Jiangxi Ganfeng Lithium Co. jumped as much as 6.3 percent and Tianqi Lithium Corp. added as much as 3.5 percent.

— With assistance by David Stringer



54 Comments on "China to Phase Out Internal Combustion Engine Cars"

  1. baha on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 5:13 am 

    This will start the avalanche…In 10 years YOU will be driving an EV.

  2. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 5:56 am 

    Of course it will start an avalanche.

    Here German former Opel CEO Neumann is warning German car industry not to lose its preeminent position to the US and China because os missing the boat with e-vehicles:

    http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/ex-opel-chef-karl-thomas-neumann-warnt-deutsche-autoindustrie-a-1166726.html

    Tesla has the same market value as Ford or GM, even with sales of 1% that of the established manufacturers.

    E-mobility is coming and it is coming rapidly. The Paris-Accords will ensure that.

  3. makati1 on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:02 am 

    In other news: The Empire backs down…again. \

    “…the US has materially weakened its proposed North Korea sanctions, “in an attempt to appease” Pyongyang’s allies Beijing and Moscow following negotiations over the past few days”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-11/us-propose-watered-down-north-korea-sanctions-appease-china-and-russia

    “…when it comes to the political fate of North Korea, even the US now admits that China and Russia are calling the shots.”

    They call the shots more places than NK. The US is a paper tiger.

  4. Davy on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:07 am 

    Yea, sure, says China that is burning more coal than the rest of the world combined. They will still be running EV’s on fossil fuels. Sounds like another Chinese malinvestment in the making. I think China has its hands full and it might be better if they quietly try to raise the amount of alternative energy they use and increase EV’s especially in those cities where pollution is life threatening. We are getting back to the time of year when we hear about red alters in China.

    What is the most important aspect of this transition not only in China but Europe and the US is economic decline. We will not be affording expensive EV’s when our economies drop 20%-50% in productive capacity because of a downturn. This will happen and all our board techno optimist will be scratching their heads at how quickly the renewable revolution fizzles. Will the global economies come back? I doubt it. We are on the other side of the eight ball with entropic decline. Systematically the multidimensional problems are building. Not only building but converging. Depletion never sleeps and populations continue to explode. Planetary decline is not going to stabilize. This points to bold worlds that are just for consumption when we hear China will phase out ICE’s.

    Let me be clear we need many more EV’s and alternative energy while we can still build them out. I believe those days of mass production with substitution are numbered. China’s days of 6% growth are nearing an end and that means an end of growth for the world. Global growth will end when the Chinese growth engine dies. There is no replacement for China besides there is no replacement for planet Earth and we have blown through her endowment.

  5. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:18 am 

    The US is no paper tiger, but this is a very different world compared to 1950. As long as NK doesn’t fire a missile with a nuke and detonate it, China will not allow the US to nuke or bomb NK into oblivion without consequences. And I do not think the US will. The only solution is for the US and China to sit down together and work out a plan for Korea. The only way for NK to nuclear disarm is to reunite with SK and the US to dismantle its obsolete military bases, in a process comparable to the reunification of Germany after the Soviets withdrew (but the Americans didn’t).

    The problem is not with NK or China but with the US that will have great trouble abandoning a crucial piece of its military world empire. Sooner or later it is going to happen anyway for the simple reason that the US with its obvious global dominance aspirations is quietly setting up the entire world against itself. And that chunk is to big for the US to swallow.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/09/paul-craig-roberts/laughing-way-armageddon/

  6. Davy on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:38 am 

    “…when it comes to the political fate of North Korea, even the US now admits that China and Russia are calling the shots.”

    Sure makat, I think maybe the US got the world’s attention because the US can lay waste to the place and if Russia and China want to retaliate we can lay waste to the Earth. This is about all stake holders resolving a very bad situation. IMA a situation the Russia and China helped create. This NK regime is their baby and it is one MF’n ugly baby. The US has never created such an ugly baby. If this blows up Russian and China deserve what they get.

  7. fmr-paultard on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:53 am 

    guys thanks to the intarweb, tard extremist nazi preachers are speading hate for women and america. we need to shoot them dead.

    but my primary concern is economic for women. it means we need to encourage women to enlist to get themselves out of poverty. men have been doing this for a long time.

    i’ve been researching women with firearms and many of them are instructors and women all over the world are fighting by flying combat jets. i wish they would drop bombs on nazi extremist preachers.

    i have no economic plan or energy idea. i’m about women impoverment and getting rid of toxic masculinity. i don’t score but i’m not bitter and hate women for it.

  8. Davy on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:55 am 

    “North Korean Defector Claims Kim Jong-Un’s Days Are Numbered”
    http://tinyurl.com/ydg6j4ps

    “The defector that CNN interviewed expressed confidence in his opinion that the elites’ loyalty to Kim Jong-Un has deteriorated and will continue to do so. He says that conviction is how he was able to leave his family behind because he believes he will reunite with them one day. “I can tell you for sure, the North Korean regime will collapse within 10 years,” he says without hesitation. “Kim Jong Un is mistaken that he can control his people and maintain his regime by executing his enemies. There’s fear among high officials that at any time, they can be targets. The general public will continue to lose their trust in him as a leader by witnessing him being willing to kill his own uncle.” Yet Kim Jong-Un has all the power in North Korea. Meaning those who lose trust in the “supreme leader” may face their ultimate and untimely demise. It’s no secret why this defector is keeping his identity well hidden.”

  9. makati1 on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 7:43 am 

    Davy the rabid sinophobe*. Better check out the things you have that were made in China or have parts that were made in China. Start with the I-gadget you are tying on.

    The Empire is crumbling and debt will soon finish it off. Be patient.

    *Si·no·pho·bi·a (sī′nə-fō′bē-ə, sĭn′-) n. 1. Fear of or contempt for China, its people, or its culture. 2. Behavior based on such an attitude or feeling.

  10. Davy on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 8:46 am 

    “Davy the rabid sinophobe”
    I love China, makat. I drink Chinese green tea every day. I read Taoism for enjoyment. I see and talk to Chinese at my Korean restaurant I go to weekly for some dol sol bim bop. There are many Chinese students that frequent this Korean restaurant. I talk to them sometimes. One of the waitresses is Chinese and hot too. So you see makat unlike you and your flaming anti-Americanism I love China but I am not going to have you set the tone of the US in decline and China rising because it is just not true and very much more complicated. You are a typical binary mind. It must come from your years as a Mormon priest. Wow, that is some skydaddy stuff you preached most of your life. No wonder you are so goofy. Part of this also comes from early onset dementia of being 75 years old and in decline

  11. Dredd on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 9:00 am 

    “China to Phase Out Internal Combustion Engine Cars”

    The Donald will wonder why simply because according to him, “jina started the climate change hoax to burden Amurka with business problems” (paraphrased)

    Maybe the anomalies changed China’s minds (The World According To Anomalies – 2).

  12. Sissyfuss on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 9:48 am 

    PTardini, you’re all for women impoverment? So you want to give them the power to impoverish themselves. Even the Nazi tard preachers aren’t promoting that practice. PTSD, you are one crazy mofo.

  13. rockman on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 9:52 am 

    OK, let’s use their optimistic numbers: “Plug-in cars are forecast to account for a third of the global auto fleet by 2040 and displace about 8 million barrels a day of oil production…”. So the current global auto fleet is 1.2 BILLION ICE’s. Currently 80+ MILLION are being annually. But let’s unrealisticly assume the ICE fleet doesn’t expand in absolute numbers in the next 23 years. So if they ARE NOT being overly optimistic THEY ARE PROJECTING 800 MILLION ICE’s on the road in 2040 with 400 EV’s rolling along with them.

    And that 8 million reduction in motor transport oil consumption = a 8.5% reduction in current global oil consumption. Many would consider the assumption that the global oil supply is 86 MILLION bbls per day in 23 years to be a tad optimistic. LOL.

    Which leads to another point hit above: will their be enough electricity to power 400 million EV’s + the additional growth in residential /industrial electricity demand including the energy required to add those 400 million EV’s. Of course one can be optimistic about the growth of alt energy sources. But, as pointed out above, a large portion of that EV market could be in China and India which might be more dependent on coal as much or more then alt energy sources.

    Easy to play the “what if” game when taking in a single aspect alone. But no so much when you expand the discussion to the entire dynamic. And remember the stats above are based on their assumptions many would consider overly optimistic. Remember in 2016 the world bought 84 million ICE’s compared to less the 2 million EV’s. Cornucopian can play the % change in the growth of EV’e all they want. But it doesn’t change the fact that current EV sales are losing very badly to ICE’s. The situation is getting WORSE…not BETTER.

  14. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 9:55 am 

    In the West woman are too empowered already for their own good. 80% of the divorces are initiated by them.

    #BringPatriarchyBack

    http://users.humboldt.edu/ogayle/hist111/FatherKnowsBest.png

  15. Boat on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 10:13 am 

    Cloggie on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:18 am

    The US is no paper tiger, but this is a very different world compared to 1950.

    Yea, the US has added 120 million people, 15 trillion per yr gdp since 1950 and military spending equals the rest of the world combined.

    You sound like mak, …….lost.

  16. TheNationalist on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 10:24 am 

    Makati, a phobia is a mental state based on an irrational fear or false belief.
    You would not accuse South Korea for example of being “Sinophobic” because they have already witnessed the might of the Chinese army invading their country several times.
    This horseshit reminds of the uneducated marxist cunts in my country with their moaning “islamophobic” or “fagophobic” nonsense. You are wrong, we just hate the cunts because of what they have already done and what they declare themselves to be.

  17. Tom on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 10:57 am 

    & the ‘deadline’ is………

    Wait for it……..

    2100…….

  18. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 11:11 am 

    The US is no paper tiger, but this is a very different world compared to 1950.
    Yea, the US has added 120 million people, 15 trillion per yr gdp since 1950 and military spending equals the rest of the world combined.

    Why don’t you have a look at this very telling graph. It is produced by an American scholar at a Dutch university, so it is true.lol

    https://deepresource.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/2000-years-economic-history.png

    Compare 1950 with 2017.

    I spell it out for you.

    – In 1950 the US was the mightiest economic power by far, China basically didn’t exist as an economic power (communism issue). Today, the US, EU and China have comparable outputs.

    – About the US spending 50% global defense spending is no longer true (I thought that too), it is 36%. Furthermore, 40% of that 36% is navy. In my view, navies are worthless in a real conflict between great powers. we had heated debates about that topic. in my view ships are sitting ducks with these hypersonic missiles around. In other words, according to me, the US has 25% global defense spending. And this is nominal value. If you look at PPP the picture is probably even less favorable ($1000 toilet seats come to mind). In the old days, navies were used to “project power”. But as I have said before, you cannot project power from the bottom of the ocean.

    https://theintercept.com/wp-uploads/sites/1/2017/02/Screen-Shot-2017-02-27-at-5.12.20-PM-1488233648-e1488233869713.jpg

    I’m sure that the US can with ease keep Russians and Chinese from its territory, in the very unlikely case that they would try. But in a similar fashion, I do not see the US army invading Russia or China and take in their capitals. Sorry to have to break it to you. In a military fashion we already have arrived at a multi-polar world, where both China and Russia can easily defend their resp. territory and sovereignty.

  19. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 11:23 am 

    But boat, not to leave you entirely without a replacement for your obsolete navy, here is a wicked time-tested Dutch technique to bring troops across the water.

    The technique is called (in Frisian): FIERLJEPPEN

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL_MwNmGAko

    This should scare the hell out of the Chinese military.

  20. Antius on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 12:30 pm 

    “In the West woman are too empowered already for their own good. 80% of the divorces are initiated by them.”

    Here is my take on this issue. ‘Women’s Liberation’ never happened. Women have been sold a raw deal. In the 1990s I can remember reading the statistic that the average 30 year old women was between 3 and 10 times more likely to be depressed than her grandmother was at the same age. This more recent article from the Guardian says much the same thing:
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/18/womens-rights-happiness-wellbeing-gender-gap

    It is full of BS about its causes, talking about pay inequality, gender violence, etc. just like the Bolshevik Guardian always does. The real problems for most people are far more basic. Here are what I think are the three biggest reasons that women end up being unhappy: (1) Real incomes are declining across the board, pushing women into work just to survive; (2) Women have been sold the lie that sex is something they can do from their teens onwards, with as many men as they want, without any consequence for the future, provided they don’t get pregnant and don’t get STDs; (3) Mass media present images of perfection that make ordinary women feel inadequate and lead men to develop expectations that are usually unrealistic for anyone that can’t afford their own gym, personal trainer, etc.

    Point 1: Since the early 1970s, the number of women in employment has steadily increased. Is it really a coincidence that this is the same time that real wages peaked in the US? The majority of women go out to work now not because it is what they want to do, but because they have no choice. To bring home enough money to pay the mortgage, the bills, the car, food, etc. both parents have to work. Often this means doing a full day’s work and coming home to prepare food, help the children with homework, clean, etc. If there is only one of you (i.e. single parent), the situation is even worse.

    To try and build up a reasonable amount of wealth before they settle down, most women now delay having children. Unfortunately, female fertility plummets after their early 30s and many wait too long.

    My friend married a few years ago. His wife was a civil engineer in charge of a team of people. She suffered from stress, high blood pressure and depression. Not long after she married, she quit her job, got pregnant and became a full time mum. She could do that only because her husband is a very well-paid engineer. For most women, it wouldn’t have been an option.

    Lesson: Most women want to have families, and most would like to be doting Stepford-housewives, with big fancy kitchens, in detached houses, with gardens where they could throw afternoon tea parties for the other Stepford wives. But they can’t. Few people have the money to live like that. You cannot return women to the home unless you have a way of improving real wages.

    Point 2: Until about a year ago, I followed most of the people I went to school with on Facebook. I joined Facebook about 3 years ago and hadn’t seen most of them for nearly 20 years. I noticed a few things that surprised me. Firstly, the men had aged terribly. Too much testosterone and too many late nights, I guess. Secondly, the people that had done well weren’t always the ones I would have expected. Thirdly, amongst the women, the ones that were married and had stayed married, had for the most part, married the same ‘first proper boyfriend’ they had at school. Most of the others were still single, divorced or single mums.

    Women have been indoctrinated to believe that they can be free and easy with their bodies in the same way as men (some men at least), get away with the same things and it won’t make any difference to their long term prospects. You can try someone out, go to bed with them, drop them and start over with someone else. When you are 30 or something, you can settle down right?

    Wrong. It doesn’t work that way for a woman. Failing to tell women the truth on this issue is one of the cruellest things that the Zionist media and left-wing teachers have done to young women in the western world. Here is the truth. When a woman loses her virginity, it is a make or break moment for her. In that moment, she is either connecting with the man she will marry, have children with and spend the rest of her life with, or all hope of that is severely damaged. In men there is no comparable thing. Men do not have virginity. Women that get it right the first time are overwhelmingly likely to have happy marriages. For those that don’t, things rarely go right. They get dumped, abused and cheated, without ever knowing quite why. If a woman is exceptionally pretty and has a lot else going for her, she may be able to buck that trend. Most women can’t. It is one of the harshest facts of life. Pretending it isn’t true, won’t make it go away. Our ancestors knew it and it is one of the reasons why sex outside of marriage was highly taboo and why rape was such a serious crime. The media and the left-wing teachers have effectively ruined western women and stolen what should be their birth right. Since the 1960s, most women of child bearing age just aren’t ‘marriage quality’ any more. Sleeping around before marriage makes marriage less likely and weak and brittle if it does happen.

    Lesson: Human beings mate for life. People should be free to marry who they want, but sex is something that must wait until marriage.

    Point 3: Human beings are social animals and are hierarchical. We tend to compete against other people that we can see, whether we can realistically aspire to them or not. The media puts in front of us 20 year old career models and encourages women to assume that they can aspire to the same ideal. It encourages men to look for the same qualities in assessing women. For ordinary women, looking the way societies prettiest models look is not attainable. This leaves the majority of women feeling inadequate. It isn’t the reality, but it is what they end up believing and it leads to depression.
    Lesson: Unrealistic role models make women depressed. The media needs to be brought into check and provide women with constructive role models that they can actually aspire to.

  21. fmr-paultard on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 12:53 pm 

    antius, your volkskin narative is boring. you are not fit to hold candle to janis ian. at 17 they get married and the account come due shortly after that foo. how i wish i’d score with educated women because the alternative of fading beauty and drugs abuse is a sure thing that put any tard to quick depression

  22. Plantagenet on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 1:07 pm 

    How can China end the use of FF in cars and still meeting their 2015 pledge at the Paris Accords to increase their CO2 emissions?

    Nope—I predict China will honor its pledge at the Paris Accords and great increase their FF use and CO2 emissions for the next 20 years.

    Cheers!

  23. Apneaman on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 1:44 pm 

    Is that like how ‘the world’ planned to keep emissions under a certain level so as to avoid 2C?. How’d that plan work out? Almost at 3C locked in as it stands today, yet many are still talking as if it’s a physical possibility. It’s not.

    This announcement is intended to string along the ever growing number of terrified plebs and score some international street cred. TPTB must feed them something and it’s certainly not going to be the truth.

    The dip shit who wrote this piece did not even get it right – changed it up to be hopey.

    All the gooks have announced they will do is ‘study’ banning ff vehicles. That is all. Study.

    China studying when to ban sales of traditional fuel cars: Xinhua

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos/china-studying-when-to-ban-sales-of-traditional-fuel-cars-xinhua-idUSKCN1BL01U

  24. Boat on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 2:08 pm 

    clog,

    So after murdering millions of prisoners by first the Germans and later the Russians, when did the kumbaya moment come when you thought they could work together. Stalin and Hitler wanted territory. In today’s world what would drive Germany and Russia together? Anti anything non white and those controlling Jews. One problem, no country like that close.

  25. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 2:41 pm 

    New UK tender of more than 3 GW offshore wind against record low price:

    https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/11/uk-renewable-energy-competitive-auction-yields-record-lows-excess-3-gw/

  26. Antius on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 2:55 pm 

    “3.6 million homes.”

    What does that mean in terms of average MW? I know what a MW is. But what is a ‘home’ in energy terms?

  27. Antius on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 3:17 pm 

    “New UK tender of more than 3 GW offshore wind against record low price:
    https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/11/uk-renewable-energy-competitive-auction-yields-record-lows-excess-3-gw/

    “including three offshore wind farms which included an impressive low strike price of only £57.50 per megawatt-hour.”

    Glad I don’t own shares in these companies. They are being squeezed to death by competitive auctions.

  28. DerHundistlos on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 5:50 pm 

    @ fmr-paultard

    I echo Sissy’s comment that you are one crazy mofo-
    nutty as a fruitcake.

  29. Davy on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:09 pm 

    “Daimler Hints That Electric-Vehicle Sales Would Collapse Without Subsidies”
    http://tinyurl.com/y92d25e2

    “Automakers in the US and Europe that have dedicated vast resources to developing electric or hybrid vehicles are slowly waking up to an uncomfortable reality: The market for electric vehicles in the West would simply not exist without subsidies. Even with the generous tax credits and rebates, received more often than not by wealthy buyers who treat their Teslas like expensive playthings, sales of these vehicles have lagged expectations at every turn. And now one German car maker is proving that effective state sponsorship of the EV industry still isn’t enough for auto manufacturers to hit lofty sales targets. To wit, German carmaker Daimler told investors Monday that it would be saving 4 billion euros ($4.8 billion) by 2025 to help offset the lower profitability of electric cars, which it now believes will earn only half the profit margins of traditional IC vehicles. According to Reuters, the company’s Mercedes-Benz brand is preparing to launch its “EQ” electric car, which shares some characteristics of the Mercedes-Benz GLC, a model that sells at a rate of around 1,000 cars a day. Even if the EQ proves popular, Daimler told investors that it expects to take a hit on profits, at least initially. You heard that right: On top of the generous subsidies that European governments extend to consumers, Daimler is effectively offering a discount on the sticker price as an added enticement to meet its optimistic sales goals.”

    “To find confirmation of just how important tax subsidies are to boosting sales of electric vehicles, look no further than a batch of European Automobile Manufacturers Association sales data released back in June…As we noted at the time, sales of Electrically Chargeable Vehicles (which include plug-in hybrids) in Q1 of 2017 were brisk across much of Europe: they rose by 80% Y/Y in eco-friendly Sweden, 78% in Germany, just over 40% in Belgium and grew by roughly 30% across the European Union. But there was one notable exception: Sales in Denmark cratered by over 60% for one simple reason: the government phased out taxpayer subsidies.”

  30. DerHundistlos on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 6:42 pm 

    @ fmr-paultard

    I echo Sissy’s comment that you are one crazy mofo-
    aka nutty as a fruitcake.

  31. Go Speed Racer on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 7:07 pm 

    To accomplish this goal,
    They bringing back Rickshaws.

    0-60 in 1E15 seconds.

  32. Davy on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 7:34 pm 

    “China’s Electric (A.K.A. Coal-Fueled) Car Companies Soar On Promise Of Petrol Vehicle Ban”
    http://tinyurl.com/yae5hec7

    “This is where Tesla, along with China’s Guoxuan High-Tech fall short. “Whilst the electric vehicles and lithium batteries manufactured by these two companies do indeed help to reduce direct CO2 emissions from vehicles, electricity is needed to power them,” Morgan Stanley wrote. “And with their primary markets still largely weighted towards fossil-fuel power (72% in the U.S. and 75% in China) the CO2 emissions from this electricity generation are still material.” In other words, “the carbon emissions generated by the electricity required for electric vehicles are greater than those saved by cutting out direct vehicle emissions.” Morgan Stanley calculated that an investment of $1 million in Canadian Solar results in nearly 15,300 metric tons of carbon dioxide being saved every year. For Tesla, such an investment adds nearly one-third of a metric ton of CO2. Which seems like the perfect backdrop to report on the recent comments of Xin Guobin, vice-minister of industry and information technology, who told a forum in the northern city of Tianjin over the weekend that his ministry had started “relevant research” for establishing a timeline to phase out petrol and diesel vehicles in the Chinese market. According to The Guardian, Xin said the policy would be implemented “in the near future.”

  33. Sissyfuss on Mon, 11th Sep 2017 8:53 pm 

    Clogstalga, the actor, Robert Young who played the father who knew best was a notorious drunk who was never outed by the press of the day. Which, by the way was a common occurrence in the old days of patriarchy. Cover up the sins of the male leaders to keep the system intact.

  34. Antius on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 1:10 am 

    “i have no economic plan or energy idea. i’m about women impoverment and getting rid of toxic masculinity. i don’t score but i’m not bitter and hate women for it.”

    Paultard, Since you have no economic or energy plan, why post your crap here? People are sick to the back teeth of Marxoid creep crusaders. You sound like Harriet Harman.

  35. Antius on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 1:15 am 

    “Sales in Denmark cratered by over 60% for one simple reason: the government phased out taxpayer subsidies.”

    I knew it. Car makers used to throw around a joke about electric cars. “If you can afford the battery, we will throw in the car for free”. These things offer inferior performance at a high price. Why would everyone suddenly assume that they are going to put IC cars out of business? They aren’t exactly a new technology. They have been around longer than IC cars.

  36. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 1:43 am 

    Clogstalga, the actor, Robert Young who played the father who knew best was a notorious drunk who was never outed by the press of the day. Which, by the way was a common occurrence in the old days of patriarchy. Cover up the sins of the male leaders to keep the system intact.

    Sisteract, I have not the faintest idea who this Robert Young is, nor do I care. What I do know is that in the fifties and before most men were not wife-beating drunks, but went out six days a week to make a living, while the women stayed at home and did what women are designed for, namely look after the children and not to serve in the army. Divorces basically didn’t exist, nor did alcohol and drug abuse under children or young people.

    Fifties:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d8/46/92/d8469222ac297df754c9bea14504e2c6.jpg

    Poor suppressed women:

    http://www.denoordoostpolder.nl/files/2013/05/jaren-50.jpg

    Transport in the fifties. 100 km driving to the seaside, limited CO2-rpoduction. Dad knows the way:

    https://www.groene.nl/uploads/image/file/000/012/872/large_SFA002010543.jpg

    Strong family ties were the norm, unlike now:

    http://www.huisvanalijn.be/sites/default/files/collecties/fotoalbum/FO-50-00030.jpg

    “i have no economic plan or energy idea. i’m about women impoverment and getting rid of toxic masculinity. i don’t score but i’m not bitter and hate women for it.”

    Paultard is desperate to get laid and hopes that his ideas about women learning to to shoot will get him there. How about getting rid of drugs first, commie tard?

  37. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 2:21 am 

    Regarding e-vehicles… of course it doesn’t make sense to transit to e-cars and continue to produce electricity with fossil fuel.

    Regarding subsidies… every human child needs 18-25 years of nurturing (education etc.) before it can become productive. Until then the child only costs money. But nobody would contemplate to trash the child for that reason.

    New technology, same story. The e-motor is already superior to the IC motor, because it is simpler, more robust, less moving parts, weighs less, needs far less maintenance. The bottleneck is the battery, but thousands of engineers around the world are working on that one and in a few years one might expect that IC and e-motor based cars will arrive at cost parity. Many predict as early as 2022.

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/3933756-2022-year-electric-vehicles-leave-gas-cars-dust

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-26/electric-cars-seen-cheaper-than-gasoline-models-within-a-decade

    Of course e-vehicles need subsidy… until they don’t.

    And again, Holland for instance needs only 2-3 of those, now operational, to power an entire fleet of 8 million cars for 34 km/day:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25hzTV-xDzE

    When 2-3 of those wind parks are installed you can close down all gas stations. And the cities are 19th-century style quiet and the price of houses near major roads can go up again.

  38. Antius on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 2:23 am 

    I can’t access a lot of Clog’s links. But I reflect his sentiments re restoring healthy family.

    I will repeat what I said earlier. There is no chance of getting women back into the home until the wages of a single earner are sufficient to support a family at a good standard of living. Most women work because they have no choice.

    There is no chance of restoring happy marriage so long as sex outside of marriage is so rampant. Men don’t need to marry to have sex nowadays and women that have slept with loads of other men are not marriage quality.

  39. makati1 on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 2:53 am 

    Ant, many ‘married men’ have sex that is NOT with their wife. Why should married women not have the same “freedom”? Sounds hypocritical to me.

    BTW: The idea of a husband supporting his family on one income is ancient history for most. WW2 moved women out of the home and into the factories. The beginning of real inflation in the 70s made it permanent. The beginning of the end of the nuclear family.In the 50s and 60s, the husband/father supported the family. I grew up in that economy. We had a nice home, a fairly new car and went on holiday every summer to the beach.

  40. Apneaman on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 3:11 am 

    I think Robert Young was also a closet homo sexual, so that is another thing he has in common with clog and the german Nazi leadership.

  41. Davy on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 3:39 am 

    “I will repeat what I said earlier. There is no chance of getting women back into the home until the wages of a single earner are sufficient to support a family at a good standard of living. Most women work because they have no choice.”

    OR, lifestyles fall such that someone at home is required to manage a home because modern society will have decline to such a point. Work will be again more sex denominated because of necessity not choice. Sure some women will still do specialized work and some will have a place of privilege but nowhere is it written this current modern arrangement will continue. I do agree as long as modernism and affluence survive women who are capable of more will seek and achieve more. The nature of modernism is liberation but a creeping control society without humanity is filling the vacuum. We are losing our foundational human basis of family, tribe, and community. It is those attributes that got us through thousands of years of survival and we ditch them in 200 without review. This is a generalization because much still remains but what remains is under siege. The existential review will come once the scenario changes and the world is cruel and difficult again to those unprepared. Once our safety net was the family, tribe and community. Now it is a distant national compact where we are a commodity. We are paying a price for affluence in modernism and it is our humanity

  42. Davy on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 4:18 am 

    “Of course e-vehicles need subsidy… until they don’t.”

    AHa, what if “until they don’t” doesn’t come? Techno optimist assume “if you build it..it will follow” I am all for EV’s as a segment of properly applied technology. Actually behavioral changes would be far more effective except that globalism does not allow much deviation from efficiency and choice based trends. Price needs to be right and people need to want it so economies of scale kick in. This has an element of allowing malinvestment. Choice and price do not reflect what may or may not be best for society. A society that is interested in long term survival is I assume what is right. Enter the government who thinks they know what is right but it is proven today that current government everywhere are also corrupted by efficiency and choice. They want to do what the people want and they want to do it as cheap as possible. Increasingly the moral hazard of private profit is at work.

    Ideally without the influence of the defects of the individualism of globalism in respect to consumerism we would force behavioral changes. EV transport would fill its niche. There would be ICE transport in its niche. Public transport would be used as it should be where it is best. ICE could be phased out properly as needed. People’s choice would be made already. With transport now a feeling and a choice we are not going to get proper applications of the technology. We are going to have a government or marketing tell us we can get the ICE feeling and choices by EV’s. We will buy down the costs and through needed subsidies make this fantasy a reality until subsidies are not needed. Sounds wonderful and empowering.

    EV have a vital application the problem is with our wisdom of transportation. It has even gone beyond our current problem with our wisdom because we are now systematically committed to an ice culture in market based capitalism. EV’s are trying to replace that but the challenges are daunting. This makes behavioral change very tough and disruptive. You change one aspect of economies and you have consequences along with your desired results.

    This all gets back to a catch 22 society of fossil fuel modernism. In the case of EV’s we will try to smash a round peg into a square hole. In such cases societies in the past have shattered and new ones risen. The idea of radical change now is potentially catastrophic with so much overshoot. Economic disruption can bring down the economy. The result is a muddle of reaction to one consequence or another and add in apathy. EV’s are a muddle. They will do some good by eventually filling a default niche but longer term they are not “THE” answer. Rational transportation arrangements are the answer. Beyond that a new human arrangement is the answer. The current wasteful and destructive car culture will end and EV’s can’t stop that. Localism will likely return by necessity because of what appears to be the beginnings of the end of mass affluence. With mass affluence comes the economies of scale of globalism. Without affluence there is much less economies of scale and few EV’s.

  43. Antius on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 5:09 am 

    “Ant, many ‘married men’ have sex that is NOT with their wife. Why should married women not have the same “freedom”? Sounds hypocritical to me. ”

    Makati, people have the freedom to do almost anything, but there are consequences. Those consequences exist no matter how many rights you have. I have the right to blow my money on fast cars and whisky. The consequence is that I will be poor. The right to do it does not protect me from the consequences. Men can get away with sleeping around. It isn’t a worthwhile thing to do, but it won’t damage their marriage prospects anywhere near as much as it does for women. These are simply facts of life that have nothing to do with rights. The problem is that young women are not told the truth about how much this damages them. If they knew that truth whilst still young enough for it to make a difference, not very many would have sex before marriage.

    “BTW: The idea of a husband supporting his family on one income is ancient history for most. WW2 moved women out of the home and into the factories. The beginning of real inflation in the 70s made it permanent. The beginning of the end of the nuclear family. In the 50s and 60s, the husband/father supported the family. I grew up in that economy. We had a nice home, a fairly new car and went on holiday every summer to the beach.”

    Exactly. Decline started around 1970. The counter-culture rebellion of the 1960s preceded the actual economic decline by about a decade. Clog wants the sort of family environment you grew up in to be more the norm. I agree with him. I think it will be difficult to bring back without the reversing of real wage decline. A nuclear renaissance providing lots of cheap energy, would allow the west to reindustrialise. Manufacturing provides well paid jobs for non-elite workers.

  44. fmr-paultard on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 5:35 am 

    antard, your conservatives values is boring. if it’s your thing to check women for virginity before marriage or looking for plain jane then it’s your thing. it’s not reality. you asssume you know women.

    get off my intarweb. my intarweb started out with radicals who defend actual liberty. the joo richard stallman defended freedom to create software when the idea was radical. now we have people who are tards, who’s only fitting for building the marginot line.

  45. fmr-paultard on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 5:36 am 

    yes elsewhere they check women for virginity before marriage.

  46. makati1 on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 6:04 am 

    Ant, If your wife lived in the West, she was NOT a virgin unless you married a child bride. If she was pretty, I can guarantee it. If she went to college, it is almost certain that she got more than school ‘education’. You must live in a Victorian age. lol

  47. Davy on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 6:33 am 

    ….better than an old man who runs off to a faraway land with a boyfriend deserting his family and dedicating his life to diminishing that country his family lives in. He could at least try to make things better constructively. You are one sick old man, makat

  48. Antius on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 6:58 am 

    “Ant, If your wife lived in the West, she was NOT a virgin unless you married a child bride. If she was pretty, I can guarantee it. If she went to college, it is almost certain that she got more than school ‘education’. You must live in a Victorian age. lol”

    No comment. But is it any wonder that western women find it difficult to achieve a stable marriage and are generally depressed and pissed off?

  49. fmr-paultard on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 7:12 am 

    antard please go build the marginot line for the eurotard. your argument sums up “stick to the old ways because it works”. I understand that…that an old car will work in an EMP scenario and it’s easier to service w/o computer and all.

    But yoru conservatard arguments fall flat because you insist on checking for the hymen you old tard.

    you takinging a complex issue such as human relationship and offer your maginot solution. this is as usful and practical as 2+2=4. correct but useless.

    why don’t you fight for liberty by getting off my intarweb. you’re polluting it.

  50. Antius on Tue, 12th Sep 2017 7:12 am 

    Makat, until the 1960s, most people in the west didn’t have pre-marital sexual relations. Nothing Victorian about it. Since the 1960s, they have. That was about the same time that divorce rates started to soar, female depression started to become an issue and single parenthood started to become pronounced. Before that time, that didn’t happen unless a couple were separated by the grim reaper.

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