Reduced sales or reduced economic activity (which is what conservation is) and capitalism are like oil and water; they do not mix.

I don't care how you spin it.

You just change the end use of the energy consumption as whatever you save is consumed by someone else.

Say what you want, but conservation, along with other intelligent policies, have worked. That being said, economic activity alone isn't a good measure of what's best for people and advocating economic activity for it's own sake is silly to say the least. It's better for all involved, with the exception of course being those who profit the most from oil consumption, the use something efficiently.

The UK is short of natural resources and there are far too many of us on this crowded little island. In a different era we would have invaded (sorry "discovered") somewhere and postponed the problem for a while.

As for those pesky Americans they were getting so frisky and time-consuming we decided to let the reins lose a while but it maybe time to pull back a bit; don't want them to get ideas.

economic growth is over.

Sorry, but if you are going to have this argument, use the correct terms:

From the Webster dictionary.



Capitalism has nothing to do with oil and energy and everything to do with private ownership. Capitalism was around before oil was being drilled. Capitalism was in use in the US before it was the United States. Your logic is non sequitur.

Oil was the energy slave of the industrial revolution and unless an inexpensive and plentiful substitute is found, it will also be the end of most industrial platforms.

Ok, Reduced sales or reduced economic activity (which is what conservation is) and our "current economic system" are like oil and water; they do not mix.

I don't care how you spin it.

You just change the end use of the energy consumption as whatever you save is consumed by someone else.

Say what you want, but conservation, along with other intelligent policies, have worked.[/quote]

Only at the micro-level. Never at the macro-level.





Who's doing that? Certainly not me. But conservation on the scale required is not a solution to our energy problem...at all, especilaay ifwe don't address overpopulation. Otherwise, it s a short-term, short-sighted, selfish fix.



Not in a scarce resource world.

"In the economics literature it is … well known that increased efficiency in the use of a resource leads over time to greater use of that resource and not less use of it"

We must have a paradigm shift in our thinking about the world.

Monte, despite your thousands of posts on the impact of PO, does this represent your epiphany? That it can actually affect you, personally?

I agree with Monte.... 100%. If you think that our 'way of life' is compatible with conservation you're nuts. It's the exact opposite. Hence the term (which sadly most people refer to themselves as) consumers. Consumption is the basis of economic growth in the current world of hyper capitalism; its foundation is cheap energy.

I don't know Might just be me, but the word consumption seems almost like an antonym of conservation

From Roget's Thesaurus

Main Entry: Consumption
Part of Speech: noun
Synonyms: decay, depletion, destruction, devouring, drinking, eating, expenditure, phthisis, tuberculosis, use, waste

Main Entry: Conservation
Part of Speech: noun
Synonyms: care, husbandry, managing, preservation, protection, saving, storage

Seem like opposites to me

Hi, MonteQuest.

You mentioned you're a contractor and rationing fuel will mean some days you won't work. I can see that. And so will lots of people, certainly myself included.

I think that's what Peak Oil is all about; life after readly abundant and cheap gas. A paradigm shift will have to occur until we find peace with resources and technologies.

I found interesting, being a elite member of this site, you're not providing leadership. Like you, ration will cramp my style. I don't want it. But what do you propose we do?

All the best!

One word; Bawhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Hang around awhile, you'll catch on.

Sorry, I didn't get it.

You will find hanging around well worth the time.

Welcome btw. Prolly could have been a bit more, uh, welcoming a little bit ago.

Not at all. I have been peak oil aware since 1972 after reading Limits to Growth. For over 35 years I have been saying we can't continue to burn fossil fuels, not because we were running out of them, but because of global climate change, loss of biodiversity, overshoot, etc.

My epiphany came in 1972 when I fully grasped that there are limits.

Care to explain that? I have over 12,000 posts mostly about what we should do.