If we're not talking about gas rationing soon, the point is moot, because right now we have the ability to make a difference which would provide some long term security for this country. If we could cut the amount of gasoline used in America by 50%, that would make a huge difference quickly. Waiting until there is too little is too late.

Now, I'm not advocating rationing, but I'm attempting to point out that the time to ration is not after TSHTF.

I have outlined in a previous thread how to ration that would lower consumption and allow those who need/want it to get what they need. While I eschew any form of government control on consumption, the process I outlined uses the private sector to run the rationing system.

You register a credit/debit/ration card which allows you to purchase a small amount of gas at what we'll call the market rate. You use that card to purchase gas each week, up to the rationed amount. Any gas that you purchase over that amount has a substantial tax added onto it. The tax could be flat or progressive (the more you use, the more you pay per gallon). This would give everyone the ability to purchase a certain number of gallons per week at a lower cost and help control the black market.

The weakness to this system is that all gasoline stations must have some form of real-time credit/debit card processing system in order to work. If the system can not communicate with the rationing system, you can't buy the fuel at the lower cost. This can be gotten around, but that would require newer electronic money technologies which do not really exist in the US yet.





And this is a great example of market rationing. As costs rise, people self ration their consumption. This is the only system that works well. Can it cause problems? Hell yes! But when you are talking about a finite resource, you are going to have problems eventually! The fact that this finite resource comes with a hefty price tag in terms of society and mortality due to the world's inability to manage it properly is a crying shame.




Very true! And the key here, that you so cleverly included, is "and still maintain all we have known." The party is over, some will be shown the exit, some will be shown the cheaper seats, and some will continue to sit at the bar. Those who plan ahead and prepare will end up in a seat that doesn't suck too bad.



If you're talking about economists, yeah, well, the wise person, IMHO, does not listen to closely to those "experts". But I suspect you will find that gas will never be much higher than about 25% of a person's paycheck. There just isn't that much room in most people's budget. People will have no choice but to do what it takes to lower the fuel item in their budget. For instance, gasoline makes up a small part of our family budget (about 4%) because we just don't use that much of it anymore. Next year, if gasoline prices double, it will still be under 5% because of what we're doing today to eliminate the need.



I'm sorry to hear that meat is high for you, it's still relatively cheap here. Hamburger, for instance, has been between $1 - $2.48 / lb depending on grade and current sales, just like it has for the past many months. Some foods have risen, others not so much. Still plenty of time to purchase a year's supply without breaking the bank. Learning to garden will also help the budget.



Wouldn't consider BS'ing you on any facts, it's counterproductive and proves nothing.

Economic theories, practises and attitudes have developed in a free market during sustained growth periods in just about any commodity you care to mention. It has given the impression that everything has a market balanced price and that it’s everyone’s right to acquire whatever they need at that price to the point that is now an ingrained social attitude.

When supply sustainability starts to slip, the whole game changes. At the margins, it’s maybe tolerable for a while, but when the supply continually contracts ie the source availability does not respond to price adjustments, then that’s a whole different game and one that has never, ever been faced on a global scale. Oil has become the commodity of commodities, at least for industrialized economies, and thus has unprecedented influence.

IMO, trying to maintain a ‘free’ market in this scenario will merely accelerate the global economic freefall. At some point, the ‘rights’ of individuals to access oil simply because they have money will become an outrageous concept. Long before then, I expect, even hope that governments will use methods other than taxation to attempt to distribute usage fairly. These would include imposing restrictions on the use of oil, probably including nationalization, rationing, travel restrictions and prioritized usage. We may even see cooperative efforts between national governments to maintain some semblance of price stability, though that’s a stretch that is hard to imagine given the current myopic view of national interests. I don’t see the USA as being a leader in this type of market rationalisation, but it will have to move in that direction ultimately and well before anarchy displaces democracy.

This has nothing to do with socialism, communism, or any kind of ism, but simply an obvious rational response to a survival threat.

Not as fast as putting government controls onto the distribution of the product. Only the free market can adequately provide the fairest price. FREE MARKET that is, and yes, the oil market has some definite problems on that count, but adding to it with more controls will cause more problems than it will solve.



Only if socialism takes over. And thanks, but we've seen how that works out.




That will only prolong the problem. We need move to a different form of energy for transportation. Whether that is a different energy source, animal power, or leg power, it's what has to happen. Ever increasing prices will make that happen.



One man's survival response is another man's power grab. You will end up with an "ism" no matter what happens. It's which one you end up with that you need to worry about. Simply allowing rationing, government controls, and other restrictions will invariably lead to a mindset that will foster totalitarian types of government like socialism and fascism. Maintaining freedom is, IMHO, the only sane solution as free markets and the right to keep the fruits of your labor tend to foster the solving of problems.

There are only three end games to oil depletion: finding replacement(s) that provide some form of continued technological civilization, move back into a mostly agrarian society, and wiping our species off the face of the planet. What "ism" we allow/choose will help dictate which and how fast/hard the journey to one of those end points will be.

Well from the looks of it someone NEEDS to limit the food supply to individuals. GOOD GOD>

Online with guy from france and he said portions over there are half what they are here in the restaurants. NO WONDER we are so fat.

A serving is ONE CUP. Not the BUFETT line.
jk

There it is! Politicians like to look like they are doing something and once you let them ration something, what's to stop them from continuing the process?

Y'all need to think about what kevin is saying real careful like and realize he's talking about what will happen to you and yours if you let government make your choices for you.

Remember that sheeple are willing to trade freedom for security and responsibility for comfort.

That's a function of our society's "Live to Eat, Consume at all Costs, and Do Whatever You Want" attitude fostered over the last 50 years. Fear not, it is in the process of straightening out.

Okay, thanks to all for the posts here. I have a new request.

Please list the things you see currently in your community that shows a melt down or a slowing of the economy. For instance here are mine.

Less cars in the parking lots in restaurants.
Home Depot sales off.
Lots of advertising for Amusement parks etc.
Six flag cut gate price due to gas hikes.
More ppl say they cant afford the meds prescribed.
Ppl only get some gas and dont fll up.
Convenience store owner told me he is going broke as inside sales are so low. People get gas and go and dont get chips etc.
Gym Membership down down down

I was enjoying the ration chat. Before we switch gears, here's my 2 cents. Rationing will be self-enforced soon, as it has already started with joelcolorado's list. It will be very self-enforced when gas hits $20, which is just a matter of time.

I drove my wife to work this week. It was the first time I drove in 10 days. I noticed how the traffic in the Chicago Loop was much lighter. I loved it. Driving, despite expensive, is becoming a pleasure again.

And keep in mind that once gas rationing happens IT'S FOR EVER.
And one final note, people on WWII had the hope or the faith that things were gonna get better when the war was over and they were confident they'd win the war or at least they could do something to contribute, enlist, work, whatever... This hope help them to keep going. This situation is different, if they ration, utill when? Untill what?

Now, signs of melt down:

They reduced the speed limit on the highways near the city from 120 km/h to 80 km/h "to reduce contamination and accidents" they say that but I bet they aim to save gas.

Fishermen on strike, can't afford diesel

Truckers on strike, can't afford diesel either

Everybody saying oil is high because of the dollar and that if you convert it to euros bla bla bla but price at the pump going up by the week

Real state sales down 40%

Unemplomeny on the rise

First person to knock on my door asking for food in 20 years

And best of all: the governor of the Bank of Spain (where I live) saying proudly to the camera on national TV: We are entering into a deep process of recession.

Got your rice? Got your beans?

I’m not sure why you think that a free market will solve the problem. It’s the free market that has brought the world to this situation by not fully understanding and caring about the implications of consuming a finite resource. When you’re on the sustained depletion side of the resource curve, as opposed to the growth side, the economic model cannot be the same. This is something no one has ever faced, especially in a global economy. Why would you think that a continuation of the free market model will get us out of it? A reversal of the economic model probably requires a reversal of approach. More likely a controlled market has a greater chance of success of conserving the resource and prolonging the transition period. That can’t be a bad thing. It buys needed time for a transition to alternative societal structures and economies. It won’t be pretty, but neither will a distorted decline to zero which a free market will surely bring on, and very quickly.

Frankly, I don’t think anyone will get the choice. As the economy declines and civil unrest builds national governments will introduce all sorts of emergency legislation which will culminate in totalitarian regimes. It will start in ‘necessary’ areas, say with reserving supplies for the military, police and emergency services. Then maybe extend to ‘essential’ trucking, such as food supply. Of course, these will be backed up by enforcement regulations and appropriate penalties for cheating. And so it will go. Each new crisis will be met with stricter controls until, before you know it, your life is constrained in ways you have never before experienced. But it will be accepted because you can still get food and you are ‘secure’. There will be enforced conservation of course. Permits for this and that. Gasoline rationing for sure. You can’t holiday in Mexico because discretionary travel is severely curtailed and in any case the few airlines that remain are all government owned and operated. If you manage to sell your house, you can’t find a moving van for your possessions because the trucking companies are bankrupt. The only job you can get is part time with some obscure government agency at minimum pay and no pension. One day you wake up and realize there hasn’t been an election in six years. Well, what the hell! By this time you are so demoralized, on welfare, sick and fatigued you won’t care. So it will go. Welcome to the totalitarian state, step by little step, all perfectly logical, legal and necessary. You think it can’t happen? Of course it can and likely will with everyone’s support into the bargain.



Regarding outrage against conspicuous oil consumption, you don’t have to wait for anything. It’s already happening. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... suv07.html

Hey, Kevin. I partly agree with your comment that gas ration will be forever.

True, gasoline and other fuels will be rationed for a very, very long time, possibly forever. The small and respectful disagreement is that whatever technology or alternative that will replace oil, will be abundant and affordable for a while, and in time be scarse, expensive and reach its peak.

Kind of I imagine that candles were a hot commodities until Edison came up with the light bulb.

Oil lamps. Much of rural America did not receive eletricity until the 1950's. Aladdin lamps where the lighting standard for rural American. I have 14 Aladdin working lamps.

Yeah he went all out

I wouldnt have taken the time to make a comprehensive list of things that use crude to be made, I would have just said "EVERYTHING"

Doesnt quite sink in like a whole massive list though

Ppl are at this forum because the answer is "yes, we have thought about those things."

That makes about .0001% of Americans (not counting our furrin friends here)