They can send me to jail, no one's forcing me to buy insurance. I could barely afford the $175 a week they charged for my wife and I and we still owe over 25k for my wifes hospital bills. The reason its "only" 25k is because I went over every claim they denied and almost all of them were reconsidered and then 80% coverage was applied. One bill for over 6 grand was denied by the insurance company for no reason. It was a in network hospital but it was one of those deals where the insurance company didnt get the right form or the bill didnt have the right codes so they denied the charges. The hospital said it was right but the hospital proceeded to send me the bills. I called the insurance company and they said they would send them a letter to not send me the bill but the insurance company still wouldn't pay the bill. It was a joke. Then the hospital sends me a letter stating they will charge me the in network charge that the insurance company gets, it was $3500 cheaper with the in network discount. The insurance company gets that much of a discount and they still won’t pay but they tell you no discount but if you don't pay then they offer it to you. They didn't get a cent from me. I told them they should have continued to fight the insurance company. For me I would rather not have insurance if all you get is crap. Its expensive, didnt cover vision or dental and I couldnt afford anything else after paying the high premiums or deductibles and the cost of medications was shocking sometimes. If I get sick then so be it. Hopefully if that would happen it would be fast or Ill have to end it myself. The last thing I would do is ask for help.

I have an idea... people can be implanted with RFID tags if they have health insurance.

If someone comes into the hospital from an accident and their RFID tag is scanned and they don't have insurance, then they are taken back outside to die.

Solved that problem. Works for both illegal aliens and citizens who have no coverage.

Of couse, let's not allow people who do have the resources to pay for health care but refuse to feed the wasteful insurance system die. Makes perfect sense when you consider it both in a humane and a capitalist way.

Insurance companies are not necessary. There are better ways to take care of this. I worked in health care and even they told us it was better to put money away into an account to cover medical expenses. The account was not attached to any job so it was portable.

ECM,

My post was directed to the young who argue that since their young and healthy they don't need health insurance. They're just wrong. At least they need catastrophic health insurance because if they don't have such and have a accident or acute onset of some illness then it falls on the rest of us to pick up the expense through higher costs for services. That is a selfish, short sighted attitude.

We are a nation, a people. We pay taxes for a lot of collective services whether we benefit directly or not. Decent, compassionate people take care of the collective, especially the weakest, the young and the old. Call is socialism if you wish but it’s still a good idea.

I don’t like the Federal government getting involved in this problem and I’m sure any bill they pass will make a mess of things. But if it at least forces everyone to be invested in the health care industry then we will all benefit. I don’t like the idea of people who don’t pay their fair share getting benefits.

What about the young that do pay their share or even more of their share and are still denied coverage? Or if you want to go to something more affordable or better coverage then you have to worry about preexisting conditions. Its easy for some of you older guys who started at a company when the times were good but walk into a company with two tier wages and reduced insurance that cost as much or even more and try and tell me thats fair. The ones with the selfish short sighted attitudes are TPTB at these companies and in Government that have screwed the younger generation to begin with.

The problem is that under this stupid plan, the healthy young workers will not simply be allowed to purchase a "catastrophic" plan. Instead, everyone has to have a high level plan that covers everything, like mental health, etc. The government is mandating these cadillac plans for everyone and then expects the costs to come down! Not gonna happen. Oh, and don't forget that insurance companies are now going to be forbidden to charge old or sick people much more than young & healthy. Ok, so who is going to pay for the increased costs brought on by adding all of these sick or older new customers? Yep, insurance companies will be forced to raise rates on ALL of us to make up the difference since they can't charge the newcomers much more than the rest of us.

This plan is a major disaster in the works. I have an MBA and used to work in corporate benefits and am madder than a hornet over this mess. Congress is meddling in the market and it has no idea of the ramifications. Meanwhile, insurance companies get thousands of new customers, and get to raise rates on all of us. Also, we will have major doctor shortages with the addition of so many newly covered folks.

Oh, and the part about expanding Medicaid coverage is nuts. Much of that burden will be passed on to the states because the cost of Medicaid is shared by state and federal. It's cheaper for the feds to push certain folks into the Medicaid rather than put them in the public option. The HUGE problem is that Medicare is already crushing the state budgets. Add in milions for the new enrollees and you will see gross crowding out at the state level. (As in we have to cut pubic education by $100 million in order to pay for the new Medicare enrollees) NUTS!!!!!

It's not going to pass. There aren't enough votes to get it through the House, and it doesn't stand a chance of getting 60% in the Senate. It will get dumped at the end of the session just like Hill/Billy Clinton's attempt at Commie Care.

Will we get full medical coverage during our year in jail?

Which is, what, not important?

So when you need to cover that $100,000 medical bill you'll have $100,000 in your account?

Revi, thanks for the post ,, that is the first good laugh I have had in days. The whole thing is making me very depressed. They seem to be able to just cram anything up our asses they want.

Thanks. I was just wondering about the benefits package. I have to know my options.

Implicated: The Brazen Bull Cure for Healthcare



"His screams will come to you through the pipes as the tenderest, most pathetic, most melodious of bellowings."

If those without insurance cannot pay the fee, then jail will be their insurance. A place they can share with other victims - and criminals - like the vast numbers of War on Drug Users victims, etc.

In prison they can learn the pleasure of earning - for the State - the sum they owe or even more, depending on the depth of whore. Employed in the vast industrial workhouses - Newspeak Correctional Retraining or somesuch - for the profit of giant multinational corporations and their filthy-rich ruling-class owners.

The cost of such imprisonment would be borne by the State's beloved taxpayers, while its benefits would be enjoyed by the private contractors who build, staff and maintain these glorious institutions.

And let us not forget the excellent exercise inmates will be compelled to undertake for their new lords. Americans in particular might even catch a second peak of health during their incarceration, what with the minimal rations and long hard work hours. For all these benefits bestowed upon them, clients ought to be glad for having run afoul of the new mandatory health insurance law, or whatever other arbitrary, rights-violating law that got them there.

Thus the sublime perfection of the State's plans can now be clearly perceived. Close as a hair their plans do fair against the prime goal of total control.

In future not so distant armies of such downtrodden minions will shovel coal and mend sole in the darkly illuminated dungeons of privately contracted work prison complexes.

A return to the good old days (now known to the elites as "the excellent future days!") of workhouse times a thousand with all the benefits of gene-tagging, precise computer monitoring of all inmates at all times via implants and a rich sensor grid, remotely powered implanted lethal injectors to kill those who might manage to escape. No more need for roving militias or national guards to repress slave revolts.

No more need for guns once everyone who matters is securely inside or outside.

Betrothed and long ago wed in their complementary ways, both Police State and Corporate State will like twin snakes coil together to form the double-helix of the future's new DNA. And DNA itself, along with correct social heritage, will decide who is among the few inside the bubble of superprivilege-ultrawealth and who is encased in the toxic confines of the transnational prison-industrial megacomplex. Today's reality is but a rough precursor - a vague outline - for the perfection of tomorrow.

People who can't afford insurance ought to be imprisoned and worked to death for the profit of the super-rich. That is their most efficient use. Hitler made great money for his friends in industry by working prisoners to death - feeding them just enough to get some work out of them - for profit. It works quite well as an economic regime and has the secondary benefit of permanently removing surplus expendables from the population pool.

These vast institutions will be the ultimately voracious mouths that suck into their abyssal blackness first the criminals, then the poor and street people, next the former lower class, and onward until all but the diamond-toothed few stand upon the institutional and perhaps even biologic pyramid of total world slavery for their benefit alone.

Shoveling victims into their toothy, drooling mouths is the work of the State and its laws. And much work remains to be done, though the hardest part is already complete. Health-insurance law with prison punishment is only a frilly icing on a cake whose bulk is the Drug War and the concerted contributions of numerous other wars carried on quietly and indirectly by the State and Corporates on behalf of their constitutent and investor classes.

This Future Level Prediction has a Hellrated temperature of 230 degrees Centigrade. Its theme is psychotically co-consonant with the Brazen Bull: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull

Good comments. Reading through this discussion is much more productive than listening to our leaders (left or right) "discuss" health care on CSPAN.

It's too bad we seem to feel the need to solve ALL the problems at once. That guarantees a huge mess, or nothing meaningful gets done.

I have a solid policy with a fairly high deductible and a reasonable premium that works for me. It really frosts me that soon I will be FINED if I don't upgrade to a policy that covers whatever the government says I must have covered. If I can afford a deductible of X, why force one a tenth of X on me, and a much higher monthly premium?

No wonder they can't get a large majority of folks to agree with such nonsense.

Ain't that the truth. With all the discussion about death panels, etc. we can't even have a rational discussion about final choices.

For me, I'd prefer a lethal injection after being knocked out to death by bone cancer for example. Would save the system a hell of a lot of money too. OTOH, heart problem that's fixable -- sign me up.

But no, one size has to fit all, and it's going to fit really badly for many.