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clv101
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:25 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1070 Location: Bristol, UK
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One point I've just thought of, there are more Iraqi people involved in security and police duties these days - I bet there are more 'official, uniformed' personnel being killed now than ever before.
Are the causality figures a serious issue in America? Do people talk about them? Or is there a general level of acceptance?
_________________ "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen." The Emperor (Return of the Jedi)
The Oil Drum: Europe
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dauterman
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Post subject: Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:50 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 73
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Hi,
In addition to the decreased first-time enlistment rate, there are other problems. The first is the retention rate of those coming up for re-enlistment:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... uard_x.htm
Quote: WASHINGTON — Just as the Pentagon is increasingly relying on the National Guard and other part-time troops for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, an internal Guard survey suggests that the demanding deployments could prompt a significant number of its soldiers to quit the military. A recent survey of 5,000 soldiers from 15 states showed that the rate at which Army Guard members choose to leave the military could jump — to 20-22% a year among those who have served long overseas tours, typically 12 months. I personally know several National Guard soldiers who just returned to my hometown from tours of duty in Iraq. Every last one of them told me that the conditions over there are horrible. None of them is planning on re-enlisting. The National Guard are NOT affected by the stop loss. Only the regular active duty army is affected. However, the majority of soldiers in Iraq right now are National Guard not Regular Army. The other problem has been AWOLs/deserters: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/ame ... ory=638635Quote: As the death toll of troops mounts in Iraq and Afghanistan, America's military recruiting figures have plummeted to an all-time low. Thousands of US servicemen and women are now refusing to serve their country.
I do not personally know of anyone that has gone AWOL but have heard a few people talking about it.
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sventvkg
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Post subject: Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:33 pm |
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 124
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dauterman wrote: Hi, In addition to the decreased first-time enlistment rate, there are other problems. The first is the retention rate of those coming up for re-enlistment: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... uard_x.htmQuote: WASHINGTON — Just as the Pentagon is increasingly relying on the National Guard and other part-time troops for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, an internal Guard survey suggests that the demanding deployments could prompt a significant number of its soldiers to quit the military. A recent survey of 5,000 soldiers from 15 states showed that the rate at which Army Guard members choose to leave the military could jump — to 20-22% a year among those who have served long overseas tours, typically 12 months. I personally know several National Guard soldiers who just returned to my hometown from tours of duty in Iraq. Every last one of them told me that the conditions over there are horrible. None of them is planning on re-enlisting. The National Guard are NOT affected by the stop loss. Only the regular active duty army is affected. However, the majority of soldiers in Iraq right now are National Guard not Regular Army.
That USA Today article was a complete fabrication of lies...I personally know and hang out with many full time soldiers up here as well as guard soldiers. The enlisted guys I know say that a conservative estimate of soldiers that they know and soldiers that they know etc that will re-enlist is 20%.....So they are telling me the opposite of that article which says around 20% will not re-enlist.
Also, from thye guard guys I know they are saying NONE of the soldiers that are E6 and below that any of them know are re-enlisting. Only higher ranking NCO's that are closer to retirement and less likely to have to spend lots of time in direct combat are staying for the most part.
This is what I'm hearing and I know these sources are reliable. The Govt. is hiding it and Rumsfeld knows it as well...It's their plan so they can either radically expand the Military under the guise of recruiting emergency, through huge pay hikes and incentives or bring in a draft at some point. From what my friends are saying, the military is offering LARGE sums of cash to recruite and even just to extend your tour and no one is really taking it...We've got problems and they are being completely covered up. Rest assured I'm correct on this.
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Chichis
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:19 am |
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 101 Location: Cornwall, NY
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What's with the spikes in April and November of both years?
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lorenzo
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Post subject: Military Industrial Complex Quiz Question Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:54 am |
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 2233
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(This is my last anti-Anglosaxon post on these message boards, I promise).
Question: since 1945, the US has been involved in countless wars, occupations, terror campaigns, invasions and interventions. In which year did the US military industrial complex NOT intervene, occupy, slaughter, bomb, kill, assassinate, commit coups, cause civil wars, or invade countries, nations, people, personae, babies?
Options:
a) 1948
b) 1967
c) 1980
d) 2001
e) never
For each of the options, you have to give an explanation as to why you think it's not the correct one.
Good luck!
_________________ The Beginning is Near!
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PhilBiker
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Post subject: Re: Military Industrial Complex Quiz Question Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:10 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1304
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lorenzo
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:18 am |
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 2233
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I know that book. Sadly, it covers only half of all the American slaughter campaigns in the world. It's very incomplete.
_________________ The Beginning is Near!
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khebab
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Post subject: Re: Military Industrial Complex Quiz Question Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:18 am |
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 933 Location: Canada
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PhilBiker wrote: lorenzo wrote: (This is my last anti-Anglosaxon post on these message boards, I promise). PROMISE?!?!??!???!??!? EVERYBODY READ THAT QUOTE PLEASE!!!!!! Here's a good book on the subject that I recommend.Thanks for the link! I didn't know this book, there is quite a scary review on the amazon website  : Quote: Reviewer: True Christian American (God's Country) - Many would argue against the validity of Mr. Blum's facts. I do not. If you closely examine his sources, they hold up well under rigorous examination. What I dislike about this book, and the likes of Mr. Blum, is the agenda of anti-Americanism. Mr. Blum is quite correct in implicating the US government and American corporations in a spectrum of mass murders, assassinations, tortures, rapes and terror in general. This is all correct but he fails to acknowledge that this is the manner in which all empires have comported themselves. There is no reason to expect us to behave differently. These are the necessary means of maintaining an empire as well as the costs required to sustain the American lifestyle. Insisting on anything different is not only unrealistic, but asks us to betray of our way of life. George Bush Sr. put it clearly, "the American way of life is not up for negotiation." The price of our cherished lifestyle is high. Whether its 5,000,000 dead Southeast Asians or 500,000 dead Iraqi children, the price is worth it. Even Secretary of State Madeline Albright, a lefty Democrat, said so on CBS' 60 minutes. Blum and his anti-American agenda refuses to accept this fact. What Mr. Blum refers to our "killing hope" in the world is nothing less than what pumps money and oil into our economy. It is the tribute due to the nation that dominates the world. Mr. Blum fails to mention a single word about our civilizing effect on what he calls the "victims" of our actions. It is as absurd as claiming that the "victims" of slavery gained nothing from their association with the civilizing force of a morally advanced Christian society. (I'm sure Chris Matthews of MSNBC and his comments on Muhammad Ali would back me on this point.) Mr. Blum's unwillingness to refer to these trickle-down benefits exposes his bias. Likewise, Blum lacks a balanced perspective. He could learn a lot about fair and balanced reporting by simply watching some television. He ignores the positive effects of our interventions while monotonously pleading a case for either the millions of dead that the process of keeping the world in line requires, or anyone that might foolishly resist our efforts in incorporating their natural resources into our corporate and national interests. One thing doesn't do is spend time on the obstinance of these people. How dare they resist our advances? What right do they think they have to their labor or natural resources? What Mr. Blum says is true only to a degree. His greatest inaccuracy is that he has divorced his account of American foreign policy from the context of our unique virtue and God-given mandate. At times I felt myself trembling with rage at how he freely soils our good name, (another reason the 1st amendment needs to be restricted). His ignorance of our purity is enraging. America is almost a second Israel. How could anyone argue with that? Books like this threaten our national security by exposing dangerous facts that might sway public opinion against our behavior abroad. For such reasons it might be a good idea to ban or censor this book.
_________________ ______________________________________
http://GraphOilogy.blogspot.com
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killJOY
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:58 am |
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 2422 Location: ^NNE^
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Slaughter, empire, slavery, genocide are not Anglo-Saxon problems. They are Homo sapiens problems.
_________________ "By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price
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smallpoxgirl
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Post subject: Re: Military Industrial Complex Quiz Question Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:18 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 7742
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lorenzo wrote: (This is my last anti-Anglosaxon post on these message boards, I promise).
Question: since 1945, the US has been involved in countless wars, occupations, terror campaigns, invasions and interventions. In which year did the US military industrial complex NOT intervene, occupy, slaughter, bomb, kill, assassinate, commit coups, cause civil wars, or invade countries, nations, people, personae, babies?
Options: a) 1948 b) 1967 c) 1980 d) 2001 e) never
For each of the options, you have to give an explanation as to why you think it's not the correct one.
Good luck!
OK...lets see...1948...Korean war didn't start till 1950, but McAurthur was still occupying Japan. We were still occupying Germany also (and in fact still are). So not that one
1967....Vietnam. Duh!
1980...Well..we didn't invade El Salvador until 1984. We'd already instigated the Russo-Afgan war in 1979. We didn't invade Lebanon until 1982. We of course had troops stationed in dozens of countries around the world: England, Germany, Italy, Phillipeans, etc. We were occupying Guantanomo and bombing Vieqes. We had been providing military support to the Indonesian genocide in Timor since 1975. We were almost the sole financiers of Isreal's ongoing genocide in Palestine. We were just begining to support Sadam Hussein in the Iran Iraq war. I would have to do some research to see if there was anything even more nasty we did that year.
2000....Ditto most of the above occupation issues. By then we were occupying Indonesia to protect the Timorese, and were bombing Iraq on a regular basis because we had now decided we didn't like Hussein. Also we were bombing the heck out of Yugoslavia.
So I think I'd have to answer....E never
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arretium
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:00 pm |
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 469 Location: Seattle, WA
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Since 1948: Never. See above analysis.
We've been involved overtly or covertly with World Affairs since the end of WWII. This will not change in the forseeable future.
Anyone remember the CIA Guatemala Banana scandal?
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smallpoxgirl
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:09 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 7742
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arretium wrote: Anyone remember the CIA Guatemala Banana scandal?
Nope. Fill me in.
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arretium
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:57 am |
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 469 Location: Seattle, WA
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smallpoxgirl wrote: arretium wrote: Anyone remember the CIA Guatemala Banana scandal? Nope. Fill me in. Whoo! I learned about it my American Diplomacy class back in college. It's been almost 10 years so I've forgotten most of the details. I wish I had ready access to either my books that we had to buy for the class or an online version of my notes. Neither of which I have available. Essentially, the CIA instituted a coup and assainated the President of Guatemala because United Fruit company (now Chiquita) was getting squeezed because of Land Reform. It's really a fastinating topic. Here's a blurb I found on the Internet which might allow you to get more information if you're interested. If I have time, I can dig up more, just let me know. Quote: In 1954, a CIA-orchestrated coup ended what Guatemalans call the "Ten Years of Spring," which began with the bloodless overthrow of military dictator Jorge Ubico in 1944. During this period, two democratically-elected civilian presidents governed Guatemala, trying to provide opportunities and raise the standard of living. Jacobo Arbenz, elected in 1950, began to push agrarian reforms more seriously than his predecessor. The United Fruit Company (now Chiquita) (UFCo) protested when unused portions of its vast holdings were expropriated and distributed to land-less peasants. The Guatemalan government paid the US company the tax-declared value of the land, but UFCo protested to the highest levels of the US government. Two UFCo stockholders at the time were the Dulles brothers, Secretary of State and head of the CIA in the Eisenhower administration. © 1998, Piet van Lear, A War Called Peace.
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Carrie
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:21 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 279 Location: San Jose, CA
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Looks like May wasn't a very good month for recruiting either:
Quote: The Pentagon on Wednesday postponed by more than a week the release of military recruiting figures for May, as the Army and Marine Corps struggle to attract new troops amid the Iraq war.
The military services had routinely provided most recruiting statistics for a given month on the first business day of the next month.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 51_pf.html
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Russian_Cowboy
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:48 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 259
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The simplest solution to the recruitment problem is to start recruting people on temporary visas or illegals and giving them the US citizenship at the end of the enlistment.
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